General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

Just saw Palhinas elbow on Gross...another clanger for PGMOL to apologise for

Ten Hag asked is this one of his most disappointing days. 

"No... the execution of the gameplan was very good."

"Of course it's disappointing to lose the derby."

If the gameplay was to let City have all the ball and let them feed off scraps, then the first part worked perfectly.

But that penalty decision, Oliver again? He has to be taken off City games.

I don't disagree although it's a massive risk what they're doing. To my knowledge, I've never seen a club do what they're doing at that scale. If he sinks the club having spent that money or continue to not challenge in any competition, the fans will obviously take their displeasure out on Todd Boehly. The buck stops with him and his team ultimately.

My point was earlier in the thread, posters were saying United fans will be along to give out about the Glazers and they're not to blame for how the club performs on the field or can't be blamed for 'not backing the manager., etc. In reality, they oversee the manager, the signings, the culture, the facilities, etc. ETH is very much to blame how the team is performing right now but if his team is performing exactly like his predecessors, then maybe there is a problem above the manager and the club as a whole.

United have spent tonnes of money but would rival fans honestly want those players at their clubs at the transfer fees? I am guessing no but usually we're told to stop 'whinging' about the owners. As you said, it's scatter gun madness and I fully agree. As Neville rightly pointed out, United don't even have a sporting director. No other serious big club doesn't, that's not on ETH obviously so he's left to his own devices which IMO is dangerous. Plenty other instances like that all lead to massive failure to on field performances yet we're told it's all down to the manager. It's not as black and white as that obviously.

Why does ETH not take them off? He starts them every single week no matter how poorly they play. That must be head wrecking for other players trying to break into the team.

Dutch Brendan Rodgers 🤣🤣🤣

At least Onana looks like he is getting it together. When Casemiro, Varane, Shaw and, to a lesser extent, Martinez are back, Utd will be stronger. But nowhere near City. Or Liverpool. They still rely on counter attacking football. That’s not what the best teams in the league do. Ten Haag had a very good first season but he’s had a bad window.

I mean, the first part is just false. There have been chants in the stadium for years wanting the Glazers out. There were protests against them when they took ownership in 2005 and even in 2010 when the club were going through a very successful spell - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/8671176.stm

Backing managers imo is not the same as giving them a blank cheque to do whatever they want with it. It's reckless. Pep said yesterday "I have said many times we go in the same direction, the chairman, the manager, the CEO.." United don't have a vision and new owners will continue to spend money that the club have generated themselves. Remember the Glazers have not spent a penny of their own money but leveraged it with millions and millions of debt where if everything goes wrong, the club could go bust.

Can you answer these Q's for me. Why don't United have a sporting director yet every big club do? Why are they overspending on flops? How many of these flops would you have signed for your club and who do you support? Do you think spending loads and loads of money equals success? Is Antony good value at £80million? Do you think the Glazers are good owners and would you like them at the club you support?

They could’ve had Antony for £40/50 million 3 months prior to buying him but didn’t and delayed it. Then when it was coming to the end of the transfer window, Ajax had them over a barrel and sold him at an inflated price.

Yeah they ‘backed him’ but by being negligent and having non footballing people at the club, they wasted time where that extra £30/40 mil could’ve been spend elsewhere. Because they then panicked, not a lot of due diligence would’ve been done to see if he actually has potential or a right fit for the club. In hindsight, we see that was a wrong move and he’s quite a petulant player and a one trick pony. Would you have him at your club? Just because the owners decide to spend huge amounts of money on a player, doesn’t mean they can just wash their hands with it and say we’ve done our job.

Ive mentioned previously that it’s dangerous to give a manager so much transfer power. Without a proper sporting director or infrastructure in place, a club ends up with a mish mash of players that don’t suit the next manager and become overvalued assets. Klopp wanting Julian Brandt but being vetoed and getting Salah is the perfect example. If Klopp had his way, Liverpool never would’ve had arguably one of their best ever players.

That is just one example with Antony, there are countless other examples. Sancho another high profile.

Of course the manager has say on what price is paid for players, even at a basic level of the manager knowing there is a budget and not wanting the club to blow it all on one player.

Only cheat clubs with unlimited budgets don't care about the price, everywhere else the manager knows the opportunity cost. £100m on Antony means less for other positions and the manager has the right to make that point.

Ten Hag knew Antony, he knew what price was being agreed. He can't wash his hands of the whole thing and pretend he is nothing but a passenger at the club.

At what point are serious questions going to be asked of Michael Oliver? Another controversial call by him yesterday while involved in a Man City game. Maybe it's coincidence but after he went off on that paid trip to the UAE, that link is always going to be there.

He is publicly a Newcastle fan, and a result of this, he is banned from officiating Newcastle games. For years, he was also banned from doing the games of Newcastle relegation rivals. Just to counter the claims of bias. When does he get banned from doing the games of Newcastle top 4 rivals? Arsenal and Man Utd could fall into this category and have had ball calls given against them this year by Oliver.

Bullshit, I literally said the words:

I even called it "my" office and "my" response when I posited about Arnold reporting a deal was agreed, and I'd say its pretty clear I don't actually have an office at Carrington.

What is 100% about that? How can I be any clearer that it was my own opinion?

Misrepresentation? To misrepresent I would have to present your opinion in the first place, and I didn't, I presented mine. So jog on.

Feel better?

You have been firing off insult after insult, I'm not sure what response you expected.

You called me a bore of the highest order who spoke nonsensical shite, now I'm just a child.

Seriously, cop on.

If only the team showed as much fight as the fans.

They also seem to make bizarre selection choices, Antony and Richarlison getting picked before players like Martinelli, Jesus & Rodygo.

Looking here at his Brazilian appearances and I think I'm right in saying that his only starts for Brazil have been the final 2 games of WC Qualification (when they were already assured qualification and top spot), and then the final group stage game of the WC itself (when they were already assured qualification and top spot).

Outside the main 3/4 attackers, Brazil are stuck for players in attack at the moment from what I can see especially with Neymar out for the foreseeable future now.

That act of petulance from Antony on Sunday, well it was not surprising. You'd think he would try and keep that stuff out of the public eye considering the allegations against him as it doesn't exactly give an image of a cool, calm & collected lad.

Makes it all the more baffling that Martinelli, who managed 15G 5A in a title competing team fails to get game time. A lot of behind the doors politics when it comes to the Seleção...

I know it’s the EFL Cup, but Ten Hag must be feeling it now. This joke semi takeover will put an end to him.

It is a toxic atmosphere but he isn’t without blame. Antony, Martinez, Malacia, Mount, Casemiro….He has to go. How can any manager stand over that?

Martial isn’t Ten Hag’s fault. But Antony? How can you sign a player like that having worried with him previously? He didn’t just develop that attitude overnight.

There are obviously mitigating factors, Shaw, Varane out injured. But the rest of those players are throwing him under the bus too and he seems unable to halt the slide. Big match away at Fulham now. Lose it and he’s going to be under serious risk of losing his job.

United just seem to be a mess behind the scenes. They’ve needed a rebuild for a while but their inability to move players on really hinders that. It’s crazy to me that players like Martial and Maguire are still there.

Getting players in doesn’t seem to follow any real strategy either. What was the thinking behind getting Mount? They have a player that plays in that position and knew they were under FFP restrictions and surely the priority would be a proven goalscorer. Seems like they went for Mount because they could get him, rather than actually needing him.

Culturally too, it seems off. Very little motivation for players to perform, once things start to go bad they just get worse until a new manager comes in and gets a short term bump - but then it settles back into the same routine. No players showing any leadership during games knowing full well the manager will be the one to take the hit.

Was at a Liverpool talk a year or so ago and Raphael Honigstein was there who had recently worked with Rangnick, and when asked about it simply said “however bad you can imagine it, it’s worse”.

Dont see the point in getting rid of ETH, whoever comes in will have the exact same issues as he’s having, that Ole and Mourinho had previously had. Until there’s wholesale operational and cultural changes this will be the norm for them.