Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

The war seems to be mutually agreed upon between the IDF, Israel war council, and Hamas, given Israel's literal-biblical response to the first strike, citing scripture and declaring a formal war.

Though that is not to say the citizens of Gaza signed off on this the same way the Knesset did for the democracy of Israel.

It's one of the most ridiculous comparisons that have appeared on this thread.

So should whoever warn first be able to claim they won because the others should leave whatever territory they are in?

Nasrallah has been unusually quiet of late. What's going on there? I know there are skirmishes between the IDf and Hezbollah, but Is Hezbollah split on escalating it to a second war? Maybe the US warships in the region are giving the Hezbollah leadership pause for thought

You've been given enough evidence that the Gaza Ministry for Health using the last three wars as an example, has been off to UNICEF and other international agency numbers by approx 2%. I don’t believe any figures posted by any one on this thread in relation to Palestinian deaths will be accepted by you. However, whenever this all ends, and figures are posted I hope you’ll be gracious enough to admit you were wrong and I’ll leave it at that.

Secondly, I’ll admit that I’d hold Israel to a higher standard than Hamas. Hamas are terrorists, the brutality and savagery towards innocent Israelies was beyond comprehension. They do not care about ordinary Palestinians any more than they care about Israelies. That said, I believe that the retaliation has disproportionate to innocent Palestinians. Never mind the decades of oppression in the lead up to this but we are all aware; even if you choose to not acknowledge it as it doesn’t fit your rhetoric; cutting off aid, food, water supplied, fuel so hospitals cannot function, incessant bombing. We all know from past wars that what Israel are doing isn’t going to defeat Hamas. When the November 2015 attacks happened in France, where there was suicide bombers, gunmen killing people. Hostages taken were something like 90 people were murdered in a theatre, did France just bomb the areas or five days later where they hunted down the leader did they bomb the apartment block he was in? No they didn’t. Because it wasn’t the right thing to do. So forgive me if I hold Israel to a higher standard, like the west. And forgive me for not celebrating collective punishment. Which is what this is.

Just to clarify, you are OK with the IDF going into Gaza and going after Hamas?

Say,

debate on this topic, for 458 pages, 13000+ posts has been, for the most part, reasonably calm, level headed and civil.

So I'm not seeing from where this extremism is blowing up. Is it because I'm not on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter/X etc, has there been some algorithm fuckery going on making people this mental about the reality and circumstances? "we're gonna exterminate you"

The war's only going to get worse because regardless of where it has come from, it's here, and scary and siege mentality will be through the roof as a result.

Totally incorrect.

Yes. I’ve already stated that in previous posts. I just disagree with the methods they are currently doing.

There is , apparently a vast network of tunnels throughout Gaza - some going out to sea, some going out to Israel while others go out the Egypt. . They harbour hospitals, accommodation , food stored for months , etc, etc, etc. yet there is no mention of any of this being made available to the Palastinians re food safe accommodation, medicine

. What I cannot make out is why Hamas felt the necessity of the tunnel system for its survival in times of ‘conflict’ but the ‘penny never dropped’ that such a system/facility might come in handy for the civilian population. It’s hard to know where the truth lies on either side, The UN , etc, agencies make no mention of what Hamas has stored away re food, accommodation, fuel , medicine, etc. when they report the dire straights Gaza is in re these items. The mind boggles

Hamas has already stated the tunnels are for their terrorists and hostages and not for the civilians , they said it's down to the UN to deal with people in Gaza .

Imagine that

Hamas stating the obvious that they don’t give a flying **** about the ordinary Palestinian civilian

"not for civilians"

therefore evidence of not using civilians as human shields? But the IDF said so?

Personally and this is just my opinion, I think this attack on Oct 7th was well planned in advance, and I mean more than a year, perhaps the escalation in settlements triggered it however logically I’m at a loss to see how they could derive weapons unless they were gathering it for a long time, along with creating tunnels for their own protection/network to get around.

So a long ground invasion which could result in tens of thousands of civilian casualties is OK by you, but targetted bombing from the air, not so much.