Russia - threadbanned users in OP

A wise man once said “When virtue tarries, evil smiles”.

Bonus internet points if you know who he is 🤣

Biden said recently that the US is the indispensable country, its antonym is dispensable which would be all other countries......

Kormac - The Templar

Ukraine are making ground, albeit slowly, while the russians are gaining none and are watching their economy implode and inflation spiral out of control, but why would Ukraine surrender their homeland to russia? (even in the pesimistic case, there is no russian "win" coming, i.e. de-nazify Ukraine by installing a russia facing government, has this purely become a land grab?). Ukraine don't even need a Suroviken line, they'll be joining NATO as soon as the war is finished and then russia won't dare step anywhere.

Should it not be russia being honest with themselves? Do you see this operation outlasting putin?

Your position is typical of the russian tankie/putinbot, do you have any actual solution of your own to offer other than Ukraine to roll over? i.e. what land should russia give up of that occupied, what losses do you think Ukraine and any country being threatened by russia should give up in the face of their aggression?

So Silverharp, you put no mass on all the damage caused by UKr behind the front lines eg sinking ships , bombing road and rail supply lines, blowing up ordinance, damaging tanks, high kill rate, etc. I suggest that the effect of all this is a ‘long term investment ‘ by UKR and is going to have a longtrerm negative impact on the Russians eg resistance in Russia as more body bags arrive, decreasing moral , increasing difficulty to supply ordinance , food etc to the front lines, etc.

Seems as if Ukraine has to go back to the drawing board a bit and assess what it is trying to do.

The only way forward is for Ukraine to lock the front lines and wait for Russia to collapse. Meanwhile-

They could be I doubt it will change much on the ground or in Washington,there was high expectations for this Counter attack even if the Ukrainians didn't promote any actual goals or objectives, those who are paying the bills won't be impressed and that's what's we are seeing currently in Washington, funding being held up I think going forward there will be expectations and returns put on funds before more are released (Hope I'm wrong)

Fidget

the navy one is mostly irrelevant, good PR but it doesnt affect the battlefield, hitting Moscow, again PR, growing their economy? a qtr of their population are not in Ukraine, their GDP will be a weird bookkeeping artifact of aid and loans.

Here is a Time article from yesterday , the future problems for Ukraine, notably a gurgling sound with the number of recruits. At the end of the day Russia has 3 to 4 times the population of Ukraine and Ukraine are further down the hoovering up any male that can hold a gun. I only follow US main sources so if I know they are being critical they arent materially over-egging the pudding. there has been a trend with negative reporting in recent months

Time article 30/10  , seems like gurgling sounds in Ukraine with men more than equipment being a problem

[URL unfurl="true"]https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-interview/[/URL]

In some branches of the military, the shortage of personnel has become even more dire than the deficit in arms and ammunition. One of Zelensky’s close aides tells me that even if the U.S. and its allies come through with all the weapons they have pledged, “we don’t have the men to use them.”

When I raised these claims with a senior military officer, he said that some commanders have little choice in second-guessing orders from the top. At one point in early October, he said, the political leadership in Kyiv demanded an operation to “retake” the city of Horlivka, a strategic outpost in eastern Ukraine that the Russians have held and fiercely defended for nearly a decade. The answer came back in the form of a question: With what? “They don’t have the men or the weapons,” says the officer. “Where are the weapons? Where is the artillery? Where are the new recruits?”

Ukraine’s slow progress at the front. “We’re not moving forward,” says one of Zelensky’s close aides. Some front-line commanders, he continues, have begun refusing orders to advance, even when they came directly from the office of the President. “They just want to sit in the trenches and hold the line,” he says. “But we can’t win a war that way.”

Now recruitment is way down. As conscription efforts have intensified around the country, stories are spreading on social media of draft officers pulling men off trains and buses and sending them to the front. Those with means sometimes bribe their way out of service, often by paying for a medical exemption. Such episodes of corruption within the recruitment system became so widespread by the end of the summer that on Aug. 11 Zelensky fired the heads of the draft offices in every region of the country.