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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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  • Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭Jimi H


    Surely the international community will have to intervene? This is just beyond horrific. A hell on earth



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,657 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I note a lot of Israel / Netanyahu defenders on social media are actually supportive of the idea of hundreds of civilians being killed in order to eliminate a Hamas leader. Let nobody claim then that they have an issue with Israel committing war crimes or are denying they are happening....they are actually fully in favour of the regime carrying them out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    Multitudes of sadistic videos circulating now of Israeli forces torturing and humiliating Palestinians in the west bank. They are completely out of control



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,103 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    The US will veto any such attempts via the UN.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The Israelis have history of that kind of thing. Killing hospital workers, Red Cross workers, children etc etc etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭Jimi H


    No idea. Bang some heads together. Get the hostages released and demand a ceasefire to put an end to the killing of children and civilians



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    There was a very detailed post today (can't remember who) that detailed the way this could be stopped. An excellent post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Northernlily


    A refugee camp. Go on - try and defend that.

    Let's hear it as you've been probably the most prominent pro Israel poster.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭nachouser


    They literally bombed a refugee camp without caring who else was there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,926 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    That is terrible. Poor man who'll never be the same again after that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,633 ✭✭✭brickster69


    No the line will be trotted out again " Israel has the right to defend itself "

    No one ever asks if the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves from atrocities committed against them for the last couple of decades though.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Hypothetical scenario of the British government dropping a large bomb onto a Northern Ireland city street merely because they spotted an individual associated with the IRA there. There is no difference at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Northernlily


    Israel obviously feels they can take things to extreme levels with little repurcussion with the US/EU support and they have probably been assured as much behind the scenes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,414 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    There were told to go south. But I get your point and your next question would probably be: what's the limit, how many civilians deaths can still be considered proportional for the killing of one of Hamas' leaders? And tbh I don't know. I don't have the answer for that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,517 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose



    What security guarantees do you give Israel? Why no ceasefire from Hamas (you know, those pesky rockets they continue to launch?) Nothing about the Israeli hostages (or non-Israeli hostages) either.

    What reparations does Hamas make for their attack? They've tonnes of money from the likes of Qatar. Will it be used to rebuild the kibbutzes they attacked?

    There's no "Palestine." So, who exactly guarantees the 2-state solution in your model? The PA for the west bank? What about Gaza - or is it incorporated into Israel now? Run by the UN?


    I'd prefer the UN take over the administration of Gaza and cease the rocket fire from there. The Gulf states can easily switch their Hamas funding to fund a special UN mission in Gaza. All UN nations like Ireland could provide troops and workers, even the US and Israel, to such an effort. But it begins with a ceasefire on both sides, with Hamas turning over hostages and the participants in the 7 October pogrom.

    Mossad can go after Hamas supporters, this will take time like it did after the Olympics (this has been discussed before.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,435 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All Eyes On Rafah



  • Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭Jimi H


    For those saying it’s essentially the fault of the civilians for being killed because the refugee camp is in the North, they’re also bombing the south

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/gallery/2023/10/31/photos-in-rafah-israeli-bombing-shatters-buildings-shatters-lives



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Regarding the IHL and civilian objects. To all who are screaming about Israel breaking the IHL by attacking civilian objects harboring terrorists.

    Under international humanitarian law (IHL), also known as the law of war, it is generally prohibited to attack civilian objects. This means that any object which is not a military objective is protected from attack. Civilian objects include homes, schools, places of worship, hospitals, and other objects which are essential to the civilian population.


    However, there is an exception to this general prohibition. If a civilian object is being used for military purposes, it may be attacked, provided that the attack is carried out in accordance with the principles of distinction, proportionality, and precaution.


    The principle of distinction requires that parties to a conflict distinguish between civilian objects and military objectives. This means that they must take all feasible precautions to avoid harming civilians and civilian objects.


    The principle of proportionality requires that the anticipated incidental loss of civilian life or damage to civilian objects be clearly outweighed by the direct and concrete military advantage anticipated.


    The principle of precaution requires that parties to a conflict take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life and damage to civilian objects.


    In the case of a civilian object which is being used for military purposes, the attacker must weigh the military advantage of attacking the object against the anticipated incidental loss of civilian life and damage to civilian objects. If the anticipated incidental loss is excessive, the attack is prohibited.


    Even if an attack on a civilian object which is being used for military purposes is lawful, the attacker must also take all feasible precautions to minimize incidental loss of civilian life and damage to civilian objects. This may include giving effective warning of the attack, choosing weapons and methods of attack that minimize the risk of incidental harm, and taking steps to evacuate civilians from the area of the attack.


    In conclusion, it is generally prohibited to attack civilian objects under IHL. However, an exception to this prohibition exists if the civilian object is being used for military purposes, provided that the attack is carried out in accordance with the principles of distinction, proportionality, and precaution.


    It is important to note that the interpretation and application of IHL can be complex and there is often disagreement among experts about the lawfulness of particular attacks. In the event of doubt, parties to a conflict should err on the side of caution and avoid attacking civilian objects.


    Sources:

    www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/interview/2011/cyber-warfare-interview-2011-08-16.htm

    books.google.com/books?id=HrtloqmDcYoC


    The following IHL clauses provide the exception to the general prohibition on attacking civilian objects:


    Article 52(2) of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions: "In so far as objects mentioned in paragraph 1 are used for military purposes, it shall be permissible to attack them after such warning has been given as is reasonably practicable or as required by the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict without an armed conflict."


    Rule 55 of customary IHL: "In so far as objects mentioned in Rule 54 are used for military purposes, it shall be permissible to attack them after such warning has been given as is reasonably practicable or as required by the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict without an armed conflict."


    These clauses make it clear that civilian objects may be attacked if they are being used for military purposes, but only after such warning has been given as is reasonably practicable. The requirement to give warning is intended to minimize incidental loss of civilian life and damage to civilian objects.


    It is important to note that the IHL clauses do not define what constitutes "use for military purposes." This is a matter of fact to be determined in each case. However, some examples of civilian objects being used for military purposes include:

    A civilian building that is being used as a military command center

    A civilian factory that is producing weapons

    A civilian airport that is being used to deploy or transport troops

    A civilian road that is being used to transport military supplies


    If a civilian object is being used for military purposes, the attacker must still comply with the principles of distinction, proportionality, and precaution. This means that the attacker must take all feasible precautions to avoid harming civilians and civilian objects.


    In conclusion, the IHL clauses provide an exception to the general prohibition on attacking civilian objects. However, this exception is only available if the civilian object is being used for military purposes and the attacker complies with the principles of distinction, proportionality, and precaution.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭gotaf




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,959 ✭✭✭circadian


    Here's a clue, the answer is none and it sure as **** isn't 50 in the middle of a refugee camp.



  • Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    That would make more sense with the blast radius alright.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,290 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    mode1990 threadbanned



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,023 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for ethnic cleansing today



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Hamas won't release hostages unless Israel immediately releases 6000 terrorists ,

    And the UN has been so busy condemning Israel they have some how forgotten about terrorist groups Assad in Syria and putin,



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    I guess "displaced" sounds better than using terms like ethnically cleansed. Queue usual suspects in attack mode.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,023 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Do you have any evidence Israel even recognizes those laws?



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