Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

DangerMouse27 · 03-11-2023 1:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314441#Comment_121314441

I like the idea that people are really leaning into Loki Season 2, as it seems like a lot of it could be relevant to the mainstream MCU. It feels like that, whether it will be or not. Just like Victor Timely, seems like a lesser evil than Kang, I think the opposite is the case for Mobius. Hear me out.... Annihilus..

Whereas, there doesn't seem that connect with She-Hulk or even with Moon Knight, though the links are there. They seem more forced.

Werewolf by Night. I've yet to watch the colour version, but I really liked the idea and pace of it, and the casting is superb. Maybe a MonsterVerse, that sits alongside Moon Knight, Black Knight and Blade? Separate to the MCU across the galaxy.

People are pretty much covering my thoughts on the current state of the MCU, but I will add my own original thought.

I liked Antman: Quantumania. And more so, because I can see the movie that was left behind on the cutting room floor. That movie centres around Janet van Dyne, and delves into her experiences in the Quantum Realm. That is a good movie! De-aged and she's a fox, as per usual. But, some focus group complained, probably because it isn't cool to be Bill Murray fans anymore, so they chucked all of that in the bin and just monalogued their entire relationship. When I watch Ant Man: Quantumania, the other version exists and it's got lots of heart.

pjohnson · 03-11-2023 2:36am

The post Avengers and pre X-Men/FF was always gunna be a lull.

flazio · 03-11-2023 9:27am

Speaking of Fantastic Four, there was a nice easter egg in Spider-Man 2. Basically a tall building on the south West corner of Central Park was seen in the first game as Fisk Tower, it was then used in the Miles Morales game as a squat HQ for the Underground, here it's been renovated as the Baxter Building with a massive 4 still being painted on the helicopter pad.

Worth noting however that this doesn't mean that the Fantastic Four are definitely making an appearance in Spider-Man 3 or the upcoming Wolverine game set in the same universe. Avengers Tower has stood tall throughout the game and we've never seen any Avengers. Nelson and Murdock, Alias Investigations, the Wakanda embassy and Sanctum Sanatorium are all there but no sign of any occupants (well, a message from the Sanatorium and some off screen help)

Penn · 03-11-2023 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318202#Comment_121318202

In fairness, I was saying that from the start of Phase 4, but at some point we have to acknowledge that they're not pulling themselves out of that lull. Thor Love & Thunder should have been a home run and it was awful. Quantumania should have been the MCU saying "We needed Phase 4 to help reset things and set up new characters, now here's where we're going", and it was a total dud (with the exception of Kang himself who was pretty great). GOTG3 was terrific, but also the end of most of those characters, their stories, and James Gunn in the MCU.

Most of the other movies have had elements of great ideas, or some great moments, but they've been so engulfed by the MCU trying to set up the next 5 years and just throwing random stuff in with no proper design or direction. I think Chris Hemsworth even said he was surprised to see 'Thor will return' at the end of the credits of Thor L&T because he hadn't actually signed on to do another film, then you have them throwing in Brett Goldstein as Hercules, Harry Styles as Starfox, Kit Harrington as Black Knight etc in post-credits scenes which don't feel like they're properly planned. They feel more like "Do it for now, and we'll work it out later".

pixelburp · 03-11-2023 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318522#Comment_121318522

with the exception of Kang himself who was pretty great

Hmmm can't say I was as wowed. Between that and Loki, I'm kinda not sure Jonathan Majors' disappearance from the MCU would be a negative: so far his affected accents have been really distracting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318157#Comment_121318157

I suspect the multiverse will be the crutch they lean on if they can't arrest this trough of broad disinterest. Open a chequebook and get Downey Jr, Evans etc to come back for an alternative version (evil?) of themselves. Heck the promise to play bad guys alone might be enough to get em back.

johnny_ultimate · 03-11-2023 11:48am

One of the issues with the multiverse as an MCU concept (although obviously something like Everything, Everywhere... and Into The Spider-Verse shows its broader formal and storytelling potential) is they used their trump card - the big, throwback reappearances - right out of the gate in Spider-Man. It's not a great film IMO, but it absolutely delivers on bringing a bunch of separate, popular strands together. It feels like you instantly have diminishing returns after that, and the multiverse films so far have predictably failed to follow up in a satisfying way.

Obviously, Deadpool 3 is going for the same trick (with or without a multiverse), and might have some extra oomph for that reason - but given it's already been done with X-Men in Days of Future Past, it'll be interesting to see if they can pull off a full 'getting the gang back together' effort in that sense.

Penn · 03-11-2023 11:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318940#Comment_121318940

His performance in Loki is definitely shaky, the stutter is far too overdone. His performance in Quantumania (not the post-credit variants though) and He Who Remains in Loki S1 I thought showed great promise.

pixelburp · 03-11-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318988#Comment_121318988

I think as well, what Everything & the Spider-Verse films have shown is a willingness to take the concept of multiverse as this potentially crazy idea where anything's possible - and running with that idea to various tonal or creative extremes. The Spider-Verse films might have been buttressed by some stellar grounded character work, but around all that have been visuals that arguably pushed animation to a level American Cinema has perhaps never before indulged. The production obviously took an attitude of why not? when it came to just having about a half dozen competing styles in a single movie - it's the multiverse baby so why not try and use that idea. There's a scene in Across the Spider-Verse, with Gwen confronting her Dad and it's rendered in a way that was genuinely jaw-dropping in its beauty, the background abstracted into emotionally-textured splashes of colour as two people aired their laundry.

The problem with the Multiverse in the MCU is that by design the MCU can't have competing tones - not really, not when it counts - so all it can do with the Multiverse is so very tame and limited in comparison. The Multiverse of Madness I enjoyed, mostly cos hooray Sam Raimi's back everyone! - but the actual execution of the multiverse as a concept was so boring. Pizza balls, oh wow MCU you're really trying here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318991#Comment_121318991

That's fair forgot about Loki season 1; suppose if you gotta play the same guy a dozen times over the choice is to go subtle through performance, or go "big" through tics and physical differences. Just not that into the stammers and cod-English accent choices so far

pjohnson · 03-11-2023 12:06pm

I think the whole idea of bringing back characters through the multiverse to the main MCU is really overstated. It hasn't even happened much in the comics out side of a few X-Men (Blink, a Nightcrawler, Nocturne) and especially the (certainly never going to make it to MCU) insane Summers-Grey family tree.

Penn · 03-11-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319054#Comment_121319054

Yeah that's why I had to mention the variants in the post-credits scene of Quantumania too. It's obviously difficult to play multiple versions of the same base character, but Victor Timely has a significant tic/stammer and Immortus sounded like he had a sore throat, took 15 strepsils, and they all got stuck in his throat. He doesn't need to go to such extremes to portray them differently to the point where it's a distraction.

Penn · 03-11-2023 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319072#Comment_121319072

I think it really matters how it's done. Something like Spider-Man NWH, using the Multiverse to bring back old characters in a way that was satisfying for those characters own stories too made it worth it, so it wasn't just nostalgia or fan-service. Doctor Strange MoM, the Illuminati were fun, but also dispatched so quickly and may as well have not been there at all. Then you have the likes of The Flash which just CGI'd in dead people for just pure fan-service (I can't really comment on how well they used Keaton's Batman as I haven't watched The Flash).

I think using the Multiverse to bring back old characters for fun cameos can be done well, but I think some films try to rely on that nostalgia to carry more of the film than they should. Doctor Strange MoM pretty much spoiled the whole thing in their trailers in order to sell the movie.

pixelburp · 03-11-2023 5:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319339#Comment_121319339

Michael Keaton put in a good enough showing but nothing was done with the character; this particular nerd hated the fact Keaton's return was in Generic Concrete World and not the Art Deco fever dream of Burton's original films.

Again looping back to the idea that a better - or at least more interesting - approach taken by Flash's idea of a multiverse would have been to go fúck it, let's do this alternative world as a functional third Burton Batman, Burton aesthetic n all. But that would have required imagination and gumption - something the DC stable chronically lacks. Though weirdly probably less CGI but more physical construction - which in the crazy logic of Hollywood would be a no go.

johnny_ultimate · 03-11-2023 5:12pm

As an off-topic aside, I happened to see a clip of a certain Superman 'what if' cameo from The Flash doing the rounds on social media the other day, and it might legitimately be the worst CGI I've seen in a major blockbuster in the last 10-15 years.

EoinMcLovin · 03-11-2023 5:22pm

https://youtu.be/AFUKnherhuw?si=hm9etdgWwekAz_G3

___

pixelburp · 03-11-2023 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320818#Comment_121320818

The whole movie was a disgrace, right from the very off. The director did a round of media trying to excuse the CGI as intentionally shít and "flash vision" but if you think the still is bad you should see it in motion.

Penn · 03-11-2023 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320847#Comment_121320847

I still don't have a lot of faith in this, and given that they're still just going to release all the episodes in one go I'm not sure Disney do either.... but that's a promising enough trailer.

irishguitarlad · 03-11-2023 6:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320847#Comment_121320847

The most promising Marvel trailer I've seen in a long time. Looks really dark.

Foxtrol · 03-11-2023 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318202#Comment_121318202

This is the main issue I'd put full blame on MCU for.

They needed a palate cleanser post End Game, rather than running straight into X-Men or FF, but they went too far and got far too cocky about it. They had enough of the B team heroes to keep things going for a phase of set up, however not where they've pushed things. Losing Boseman hurt the stable of heroes but even with him still around they've pushed far too many movies about characters that people aren't interested and it looks even worse with the likes of CA3, Thunderbolts, Armor Wars in Phase 5.

The other biggest issue was mostly out of their control. With them having an integrated universe, COVID absolutely destroyed their plans. No other movie or show comes anywhere close to the impact that it had on the MCU plus the associated costs. Huge chunks of scripts had to be rewritten and reshoots done due to movies changing order and it is clear they tapped the breaks on trying to tell and overt bigger story. I understand the argument that 'well they could have stopped and just taken their time and waited for the earlier movies to be ready' but to me that isn't based in reality. I do agree though, they should have slowed down more with what they faced, instead of in some circumstances speeding things up.

Probably the best time for MCU to deal with these types of challenges, with the heroes currently involved. Much rather now than making the same mistakes with the X-Men and completely messing up that introduction - given the huge number of characters it will open up.

Zero-Cool · 03-11-2023 10:22pm

I remember seeing The Avengers in a cinema in Dublin, the 2nd audience in the world to see it (poxxed lucky in a competition) but I will never forget the smile on my face start to finish. I think the only way that gets replicated is if they go all in with the X-Men and don't **** it up.

Varik · 04-11-2023 12:33am

I don't have much hope for echo, hard as they tried I didn't give a **** about her in Hawkeye.

But at least it's all dropping apparently at once so with no break between I'll probably watch the lot.

Agent Coulson · 04-11-2023 9:49pm

Echo is the first in the new Marvel Spotlight series that will be rated TV-MA

Character driven street level stakes,

I'm pretty sure that's what the Netflix shows were about.

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1720848286901264736

flazio · 04-11-2023 10:13pm

The whole point of that teaser, in my opinion, was to reestablish Vincent D'nofrio as the Wilson Fisk we remember from Daredevil.

The tagine intrigues me. "No bad deed goes Unpunished".

I don't think Jon Bernthall was spotted on set but, you never know.

~Rebel~ · 05-11-2023 12:19am

Very much feels like a Daredevil style show - even down to a street level hero with a disability. Feels a far more interesting direction than what I had been expecting based on her Hawkeye appearances - which makes sense; Hawkeye was more of a YA tone establishing Kate Bishop around a Christmas story, whereas this is something completely different and much grittier and darker looking. Quite looking forward to it now.

pixelburp · 05-11-2023 9:45am

Was pointed out by others on the internet that this was the weekend Blade was originally meant to come out.

silverharp · 05-11-2023 7:04pm

oof, if it plays out that way, that would make the wold wide total sub $300m in total if it followed the same path. Any reason to think the Marvels will do better than the Flash?

https://twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1720915683498922254

CastorTroy · 05-11-2023 7:15pm

I think The Marvels could be decent enough, but it has 2 characters that were set up in Disney+ series in WandaVision and Ms Marvel, with a lot of people refusing to watch Ms Marvel for some reason.

Come to think of it, is WandaVision the only female led MCU project that did well and was widely liked? Jessica Jones as well but that's being swept under the rug, it seems.

Though I guess since all the female led projects came out post Endgame they're among a list of projects that didn't do well.

McLoughlin · 05-11-2023 8:21pm

Jessica Jones wasn't MCU it was Netflix.

pixelburp · 05-11-2023 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329369#Comment_121329369

It was both, and not at the same time. All the netflix shows definitely took place in the aftermath of the alien invasion of New York from the 2012 Avengers film. It was referenced a few times, albeit either as background visual items like newspaper headlines - or the increasingly abstract mentions of "the incident" like the productions were paranoid open mentions would ruin the tone.

Full_Circle_81 · 06-11-2023 12:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328886#Comment_121328886

I don't think I've ever seen a film with so much doom-forecasting written about it. The internet seems to be flooded with it of late!

I didn't care much for the Captain Marvel movie (or her brief appearances in subsequent movies), nor did I enjoy either WandaVision or Ms. Marvel, but I'm guessing the new movie will still be easier to sit through than The Flash was, with double it's problematic star front and centre throughout.

I'm also curious to see if any of DaCosta made it through the Marvel machine to the finished product.

~Rebel~ · 06-11-2023 7:25am

Ms Marvel was one of the few bright spots post-endgame, and Iman Vellani is great, so i think for that element alone it'll be worth a watch.

eightieschewbaccy · 06-11-2023 9:01am

I'm definitely giving The Marvels an in cinema chance if reviews are reasonable. Even if The Flash had reviewed well, I'm not sure if I'd have gone simply because of Ezra Miller and that general scandal.

Penn · 06-11-2023 9:09am

Word of mouth will definitely play a big part in The Marvels' box office performance. The Flash was pretty much dead on arrival. The Marvels, whereas it might have a slow opening, if reception is generally positive it could see a decent return in the following weeks, especially thanksgiving weekend.

silverharp · 06-11-2023 9:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330317#Comment_121330317

I actually liked Wandavision because it was so different but havnt watched anything since as it all looked very generic. I guess with this movie if it does badly it will just solidify that Marvel is done as far as the public is concerned , that people dont want to have to do homework to watch a movie or be bothered watching films based on increasingly obscure characters.

pixelburp · 06-11-2023 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330317#Comment_121330317

It's a mixture of a Deadpool (no punt intended) as to when the MCU's first proper & bonafide flop will transpire, mixed with how Brie Larsen has become something of a rallying cry for all the whingebags on the internet who like to get upset about women in blockbusters.

Full_Circle_81 · 06-11-2023 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330732#Comment_121330732

I really wanted to like WandaVision and I enjoyed the general approach to the story, using the novelty of sitcoms across the decades. But I didn't appreciate the weird way they made Wanda the victim at the end, undercut the whole show for me. Then Multiverse of Madness Wanda seemed to ignore any progress/self reflection made on the show, making the whole endeavour feel rather pointless.

On your second point, it will be interesting to see how Marvel tackle things if the movie does bomb. I'd hope it makes them lean towards more sub-100mil productions in the future, with a lot more planning in advance (giving more time for quality VFX work and less time on hasty reshoots).

But I think part of the reshoots were to make it easier for audiences to understand who the new characters are without any prior knowledge of the shows. It probably should have been written that way anyway. Heck, I've seen all related movies and shows and even I'm a little foggy as to their exact relationship/bond to each other!

pjohnson · 06-11-2023 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330945#Comment_121330945

Yeah Wandavision aged terribly almost immediately.

It had cool moments but was essentially just an incredibly extended prologue with a lot of meaningless fluff immediately discarded just to make her the antagonist in Multiverse of Madness.

Penn · 06-11-2023 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330956#Comment_121330956

Wandavision was great up until the last episode, where it just devolved into "big CGI battle in the sky". After that, even though it was set up how Wanda might become corrupted by the Darkhold, the leap between her at the end of Wandavision and how she was in DS:MoM was jarring even for people who did watch Wandavision, never mind people who skipped it.

pjohnson · 06-11-2023 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330980#Comment_121330980

The 2 Visions were great in the finale.

pixelburp · 06-11-2023 10:40am

I didn't even mind the CGI as oppossd to the script being so afraid to make Wanda a villain it had the village's people forgive her actions. She literally trapped an entire town in her fantasy, the people stuck as puppets to her whim... but at the end it was like oooh, but she was in love, she had children etc .

Penn · 06-11-2023 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331023#Comment_121331023

If I remember right I think the people in the town didn't forgive her, but it was just Monica who was far too forgiving and just let her go. Saying something about how the people in the town wouldn't understand the pain of her loss etc. Yeah they would, Wanda literally caused some of them that exact same pain. Anya from Buffy was pleading for Wanda to let her please see her daughter.

That scene was mostly what ruined the finale for me. Sky battle aside (and pjohnson is right that the Vision v Vision scene was great, though an unresolved ending that hasn't been addressed yet), they very quickly washed away what Wanda did and tried to still make her seem like a hero, and then she's mega-villain the next time we see her in DS:MoM.

Loughc · 06-11-2023 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245778#Comment_120245778

Posted this in Feb 15th and it's looking more and more true, I genuinely think we are watching the no longer slow death of the MCU, I think Marvel Studios will continue but the cinematic universe will die. It's no longer giving them the returns they're expecting. Ant-Man flopped and now The Marvels are set to flop, Secret Invasion was an awful series that ultimately went no where.

Mitch Connor · 06-11-2023 12:24pm

they need better writing and better product. Guardians showed the apitite is there if the quality is there.

Ant-Man was terrible (imo), Doctor Stange didn't lean hard enough into the Multiverse, imo. They've given us no reason to care about Shang-Chi.

Secret Invasion was poor as well - had all the budget, but the plot was poor and they also created the most OP character in their universe, which I would assume is going to be bizarrely ignored.

I liked Thor: L&T to be honest.

They've tried to create too much, rather than focusing on the stories.

Why did they introduce Kate Bishop? Why did they have Pugh involved in that show? Why did they hint at the young captain america kid in Falcon, why did they introduce Hulks FREAKING SON, at the end of She-Hulk? None of these things have gone anywhere, none of them look like going anywhere.

Hawkeye was 2 years ago. What was the point of it?

I thought we were going to get an Young Avengers TV show on Disney+, with a cross over movie for them. But Nope. Nothing.

Clareman · 06-11-2023 12:28pm

I'm probably just a stupid old man, but for me 1 of the great things about the MCU was that you could believe they were happening in the real world, to paraphrase the original Superman tag line, "you will believe a man can fly", this was done by grounding everything in the character with a reason/purpose, Tony was nearly killed, Cap wanted to be a hero, Hulk was a scientist, Thor was cast out by Odin, then you had a couple that just turned up (Black Widow & Hawkeye) and a couple who were introduced (Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver). They all had a reason and the special effects looked natural. They also just had the characters be who they were in the comics, could you imagine a scene in a current MCU movie where Stark & Rhodes have a chat on a plane while girls dance around them?

There was a couple of mis-steps, Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Hulk, Agents of SHIELD, but they made it work with a tweak here and there but by and large it came together, in my opinion mainly because they concentrated on the movies and cut the TV shows aside.

Now the MCU seems hell bent on having the special effects front and centre, loads of clouds of colours, flames, the likes of Ant-Man and Shang-Chi seemed more cartoon than movie at some stages. They are also doing a weird job of introducing the new characters, you either needed have done your homework before the movies or it's just skipped through.

Finally, I think the biggest problem that the MCU have created for themselves is that they have made everyone too powerful, there was always the risk that the superhero could die, or the world be destroyed or whatever, now they've had Thanos destroy half of living things only to have it reset, where do they go from there in regards to risk? Sure if the baddie wins all that'll happen is the Avengers will reset it. Then you have the power of the superhero, Avengers 1 had New York at complete risk from an alien invasion, fast forward a few years and a larger invasion comes along and it just needs Captain Marvel to come along to take out most of them, anytime there's a risk now in any of the movies the thought in the back of your mind would be "why don't they just call X?" or watching the movies back you think "Why didn't Fury just call Captain Marvel instead of bringing the Avengers together and risking all of New York to a nuke?"

Penn · 06-11-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331502#Comment_121331502

Yeah that's my two biggest bugbears with the MCU at the minute; the writing just isn't on par and they're hiring writers who simply don't have the experience for these types of projects, and they're throwing in things to set up future events/characters but not properly planned or thought out, just doing it for the sake of getting attention and building hype for something that they might never actually do anything with.

I didn't mind Pugh being in Hawkeye. In fairness it was all a way to help close out Clint & Nat's roles in the MCU, and basiclaly set up Yelena and Kate as the new Widow & Hawkeye. At least Yelena is due to be in Thunderbolts. Hailee Steinfeld, we might never see again, which would be a shame.

Loughc · 06-11-2023 12:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331557#Comment_121331557

I thought they had the next 10-15 years mapped out but it really doesn't feel that way, the problem about introducing threads here and there is they too slow in trying to tie them together.

pixelburp · 06-11-2023 12:42pm

It's worth pointing out that if you look at Phase 1 & the directors alone you see a marked difference in terms of caliber: nobody spectacular in terms of creative heavyweights, but you had Jon Favreau, Louis Leterrier, Joe Johnston, Kenneth Branagh and Joss Whedon in charge of The Avengers; sure Whedon was the weak link by far but the rest are working pros with decades of experience.

Now you look at the folks helming these things and they're anonymous indie directors who got these sudden career boosts but have absolutely zero experience running large productions, or have the experience at least to bring their own determination or vision - which is, perhaps, the intent on the part of Marvel. Said it before but we went from Sam Raimi helming the Spider-Man movies to Jon Watts, a director with absolutely no voice or vision of his own. I liked Cop Car, but ye gods good luck trying to mark out what he brings to the table beyond, I suspect, a deference towards Studio Notes.

johnny_ultimate · 06-11-2023 12:47pm

TBH the problem is they have so many moving parts it can take a half decade or more for teases to pay off - if (and that’s an increasingly big if) they pay off at all. Like they introduce Charlize Theron at the end of the new Doctor Strange, but there’s no sense of when that might actually pay off as it doesn’t look like there could be a follow up til maybe 2026 at the earliest? Or a Shang-Chi sequel which seems to be delayed until after the next Avengers movies.

Compare that to the speed of the original sequels like Iron Man, or even the pace they were getting Spider-Man films out. You kind of need that pace if you want to invest audiences in an ongoing story, rather than four or five years between sequels, or jumping straight into big team ups. And then you have COVID delays and now strike delays - that one’s definitely outside of Marvel’s control, but definitely shows how hard it can be to get multi-pronged serialised stories out at any kind of realistic pace when there’s dozens of moving parts.

Loughc · 06-11-2023 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331590#Comment_121331590

Isn't the whole point of the indie directors is they will shape the movie that the Marvel Studio execs want and they don't command a large fee as it's a massive career boost for them, the like of Sam Raimi want too much influence which often goes against the tone and the MCU Style, look at Dr Strange MOM, it became almost horror-eque in parts.

Penn · 06-11-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331585#Comment_121331585

They might have had some of the big plot points/movies mapped out, but public reaction, actors deciding to move on, delays etc.... you can only plan so much. But it also means if they do have plans in place and then stuff changes, you're left trying to cover the gaps or tie up plot points in other areas, and it becomes messy.

The early phases of the MCU, the post-credits scenes were nearly always about one of the next films to come out (bar the Avengers films which were setting up Thanos, though I believe they weren't even really planning on doing Infinity Gauntlet/Thanos by the time of Avengers 1 because they didn't know if Avenger 1 would do well, so the Thanos appearance was more of a "Here's where we could go" than anything else). But now they're setting up things in post-credits that could be 5 years before we see anything further on it, and plans might change drastically in between. I gave the example earlier of the post-credits of Doctor Strange 1 setting up Baron Mordo as a future DS antagonist, and then by the time they got around to Multiverse of Madness, the original plan would have been Wanda killing Baron Mordo early in the film.

twinytwo · 06-11-2023 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331502#Comment_121331502

The problem with Disney is Disney Plus - it is basically the straw that broke the camels back. They have to pump out stuff (including a lot of Mavel related content) to try and get people to continue paying for the service. As a result all of their content has suffered.. a lot.

Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

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