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Rugby world cup post mortem

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,344 ✭✭✭✭phog


    That could be true, but if it is he must even have less trust in Byrne, otherwise, he'd have had him on the bench in case Sexton got injured

    I suppose we'll see, come the 6Ns which of the two he rates most.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I mean, he obviously doesn't massively rate Byrne. He was out of the picture completely for years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,685 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Clearly didn’t rate him for that particular situation and went with the experienced player who had been there before.

    Would not mean he didn’t rate him at all. Horses for courses etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,344 ✭✭✭✭phog


    He featured during the RWC, that's hardly out of the picture.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    "Was" generally regarded as being the past tense.

    Before being called up out of nowhere due to Sexton's late withdrawal from the Australia game he had not played for Ireland for over a year and there was little sign of him doing so. He was backup during the 6N when Crowley still had very little experience and the decision to drop Carbery had been made then Byrne dropped back down to third choice again.

    Why are we even bringing Byrne up? What relevance does it remotely have?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I agree, just an example of an inane position, like the ones being throw at Sexton



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,344 ✭✭✭✭phog


    So you're now saying Byrne hadn't played for Ireland in over a year but he was out of the picture for yearS. Because you said years I assumed you meant this year too but Ross has been with Ireland since at least the Australia game last November.

    As for relevance, Sexton has retired, I think Farrell will have to pick one of Byrne or Crowley to start our defence of the Grand Slam.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Farrell seems to like an athletic 10. Crowley, Frawley, and H Byrne all have that in common.

    A name out of left field coming up might be Cathal Forde. He doesn’t play much 10 any more but maybe Farrell likes him there.

    I wonder how that would affect Sam Prendergast as well. If he has one possible knock its athleticism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Nothing on the line? That Ulster game was a must win for Munster and a turning point in the season that went from us not qualifying for HCup, to bring top seeds and URC champions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,236 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    How is it a "lazy and easy call to make"?

    There are no ifs or buts. The fact is we kept the tired old guy on and lost, trying the fresh young guy could only at the very worst have resulted in the exact same thing.

    Unless you deny the possibility that fresh legs at 10 might have made a difference? We already know that old, tired legs didn't.


    I think coaching bottled making any call to be honest. I don't consider the absence of a call as making a call.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,685 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You consider away.

    You will never get an answer as to what might have happened.

    The coach's made a decision.

    It didn't cost us the game anymore than not taking Beirne off/ Ringrose not taking the right line/Conor Murray having a brainfart etc did.

    You can waste your time fantasising about a result that makes your opinion correct, I am just going to accept we lost for a variety of reasons on the day and get on with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,098 ✭✭✭Augme



    Who boiled it down to one call? No one has said this decision and only this decision cost Ireland the match. However it was a significant decision, and the overriding weight of information available would lead to the conclusion that it was likely an incorrect call. Hopefully the management will learn from it. The worry would be if, like posters here, they think they are infallible from making incorrect calls.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,685 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No one has said this decision and only this decision cost Ireland the match.

    😁

    I'd imagine good management is a constant learning process.

    Now if only 'supporters' could accept that maybe their call is as likely to be fallible as it is to be be successful too. In fact given the paid professionals in possession of all the facts and info, didn't opt for it it is more likely to be the wrong option.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There are no ifs or buts. The fact is we kept the tired old guy on and lost, trying the fresh young guy could only at the very worst have resulted in the exact same thing.

    You could apply this logic to literally any decision made by any player or coach in any loss.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Have you never disagreed with a coach's call in any sport Francie?

    And fwiw, disparaging posters who disagree with a coach's decision as "supporters" is an absolutely rubbish take...

    It's ok to disagree with a coach's decision. That doesn't make anyone less of a supporter than you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,098 ✭✭✭Augme



    So Irish management will never get it wrong? That's a fascinating take. Why don't you take the same attitude to other coaches?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,685 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No, I just don’t think there is any evidence it was a wrong call. And none either that it was why we lost the game. We came close to winning it if you want a positive take on it. But I guess the negative has to be found.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,685 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    This.

    If it wasn’t Sexton in the frame it would be one other single facet of a many facetted game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,685 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I didn’t say anything about them being less of a supporter but I do think they are a type of supporter that is different to me.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Different type of supporter? Nah. It was a clear sarcastic implication they're a lesser supporter, or not a supporter at all.

    I can understand if you want to row-back on that. But the above "different type" reasoning is just moving the goalposts.

    Also, no answer to this?

    Have you never disagreed with a coach's call in any sport Francie?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    So much focus on Sexton, when I'd put the larger factors contributing to our loss being poor play by our scrumhalves and the pack not performing. We let NZ dictate the physical battle in a way we didn't in the summer series. JGP really had a mare of a game unfortunately, some of the key moments of failure for us directly stemmed from him, which I hate to say.

    Games like this are ones I wish we could hear from the team what the plan was going into the match. The cross kicks were an obvious tactic, that we were close to pulling off, but why have a forward looking to field them over a back? Why be so aggressive without an advantage and end up wasting field position?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,685 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Don’t put words in my mouth please. You asked for an explanation and you received it.

    I have often disagreed with a coaching decision and I will say it again, there is no reason to believe this was a ‘wrong’ decision but one based on a thought out overview of the situation we found ourselves in.

    I wouldn’t have the arrogance to believe I am in a better position to second guess the coach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Aren’t disagreeing and second guessing the same things?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,098 ✭✭✭Augme



    There's almost never any evidence any coaching decision was a wrong call. Lots of hypothetical can be conjured up that an alternative approach could have been even more damaging etc.


    Rather than taking a positive or negative on it, why don't we just deal with facts. The fact is we lost the game. And there are reason as to why we lost the game. Those are irrefutable facts. Now, the reasons why can be disputed and its only right that potential reasons why we lost the game are discussed. Ignoring the fact we lost the game snd only trying to focus on the support doesn't make someone a "twue supporter" of the team and better than any other supporter either.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Don’t put words in my mouth please. You asked for an explanation and you received it.

    Yep. An explanation which was contradictory to the original statement... but in any case:

    I have often disagreed with a coaching decision

    But why? Presumably the paid professionals in possession of all the facts and info, didn't opt for it it is more likely to be the wrong option? And was a thought out overview of the situation? Right?


    And fwiw this...

    I have often disagreed with a coaching decision

    ...is completely contradictory to this:

    I wouldn’t have the arrogance to believe I am in a better position to second guess the coach.

    Or maybe, just maybe disagreeing with a coaching decision isn't arrogance or presuming you are in a better position to second guess the coach...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,685 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I am giving my opinion on some of the posting here. Some of it, that doesn’t recognise that it was an in game decision based on what the coach thought was best is arrogant. To suggest as some have, that the coach was not aware of what they were or that he bottled it, is extreme arrogance.

    As I said before, disagree but that is as far as you should go imo. Or have some respect for the job they do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    We played poor. Park was poor. Doris wasn't very good. Imo and the back row failed to get on top. Factor in the line out pressure and the scrum problems and, there's the end result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Hindsight is something every coach in the World, no matter at what level, doesn't have access to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Doris isn’t made for a game where we go through that many long phase sequences.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It's not hindsight. Plenty were saying it in the match thread during the game. For example:

    Sexton looks totally gassed.


    Sexton looks wrecked.


    This is the first game I've thought that Sexton has looked every one of his 38 years.


    Look ragged & sexton way off the pace needed



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