Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

By their own targets for provincial 15s, 1 HC is a failure.

True enough. But Ulster are loaded with Leinster players. As are Connacht. There's been some movement. Alternatively, Leinster have only 1 Ulsterman in the squad and 1 Connacht man

I fail to see how this benifits Leinster?

It's not about benefitting Leinster. It's about benefitting Irish rugby overall.

Is it fair that the IRFU signed a deal with Aviva that means internationals can no longer be played anywhere other than Dublin, despite a rich tradition of internationals in Belfast?

No.

Was it the smart move for the game here, given the money involved?

Yes.

We're asking questions about the best way to organise the game here off the back of missing out on another of our stated goals, again, going out in the QFs, again, and the first parameter everyone puts down is "no action should be taken that will inconvenience my province".

If moving players about improved the overall health of the game and upped talent and competition for the international team, you'd be against it because there'd be no direct benefit to your province?

But where is the cut off? Do we just send Porter, VDF and a couple of others to Ulster? To make Ulster good. While disabling Leinster. Who's going to gain from that? Exactly what competition would VDF or Ryan have at Ulster? They stroll into that side sleepwalking.

Ulster have had, Jordie, Jack Mc, Timoney, EOS and they just took Brigg into the academy. I'm not knocking Ulster but, weakening 1 province to prop up the others is not the answer. Connacht have taken 4 Leinster players into their academy. Munster took 1. It's not like there's no movement. It seems, some want the international Leinster players dispersed among the other provinces rather than produce their own talent.

If it happens, fine. But there is nothing to suggest that another province will beat Toulouse etc, even with a couple of Leinster player.

I want the game to grow and I believe it is in some parts.

To be honest my heart sinks a little everytime Ulster sign a Leinster B or C player. Sometimes they work out well such as Cooney, Timoney and O'Connor, most of the time they don't.

I'd far rather we produced our own, and I sometimes think we don't back our own young players enough.

That said, whether the redistribution of players is fair to Leinster or not is irrelevant. As Paul says there are plenty of things in Irish rugby that aren't fair to the other provinces, but we have a pyramid system that all points to the Ireland team. If Harry Byrne (for example) was sent to Ulster, it wouldn't be to boost Ulster, it would be to create more depth in Irish rugby and benefit the international team.

Realistically are Ulster ever going to compete with Leinster if a third of our team are made up of players who wouldn't even be second choice at Leinster?!

The lesson is the provinces need to produce their own, but the fact is we don't have the resources Leinster have so will probably never have the depth except for generational cycles (see 80s for Ulster and 00s for Munster). We have a decent schools system, Leinster have probably the best in the world, or at least comparable to SA and NZ. They're almost always going to be the main source of players for Ireland and a comfort blanket for the other three provinces when they are light in certain areas.

If it is actually a problem then there is a simple enough fix. You can’t get picked for ireland if you aren’t consistently in your province’s 23 for big games.

If Harry B goes to Ulster, it would boost Ulster. Nothing wrong with that. Same if Pat McCarthy went to Ulster. He'd bypass Reid in a month and EOS by the years end. I Don't dispute the benifits. But the benifits are for the other provinces. If Connacht were to win a trophy it would be due to the multitude of Leinster players in the system.

That's a good start. I agree with that.

No, the benefit is for the international team.

Nobody on this forum has said anything like that. In an ideal world they all would produce everyone they need but that world has never existed. there always has been some movement between provinces and always will be a fair bit of movement in this pro era with IRFU controlling all 4 provinces.

all provinces are producing their own players but wont be able to compete directly on the same level as Leinster for very obvious reasons that is impossible to directly replicate elsewhere

Ok. I realize that there's problems in the system. But another scenario could be a Ben Healy type scenario. X can't play for x province so feck it, he's off to another place. James Cronin went to England rather than stay in the Irish system. Some players may move.

I expect to see a couple of Leinster players leave this year. I believe that 1 could jump over to Stu at Racing. I wouldn't be surprised if Frawley or HB leave either.

No benifit for Ulster! Hymmmm. Please stop, Harry is in the 23 right away.

Ulster would take him in a minute. Billy Burns and HB would be a good bit of depth.

I'm not sure what you mean. I hadn't mentioned Harry Byrne.