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Heat Pumps - post here.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Mine is set on my indoor unit, my tank is enclosed but i set it on front controller.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    We're looking at getting a heat pump installed as part of a retrofit (external insulation and new windows). As part of that I was looking at demand control ventilation (using a centralised extraction fan) to extract some high moisture the house seems to have. Will DCV potentially require the heat pump to use more electricity than the standard hole-in-the-wall vents I currently have? I would have thought not but, as the house won't be fully air right, I don't want to risk losing the lower heat output of the heat pump.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭DC999


    Nope. Your house will be more airtight using the demand control ventilation (using a centralised extraction fan) instead of the current holes in the walls for vents. It limits the amount of cold air coming in. So it’s better than what you have now.

    Separately the heat pump (or any heating system) heats the space. And its less work to do with the DCV than if you had open vents. The DCV uses energy to extract the moisture and pull in new outside air and heat that.

    Also afaik we feel warmer at a lower temp with less moisture in the air. Warm air holds more moisture, but makes us colder (somehow). So you’re on a winner it seems! 



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Perfect, thanks. From what I've read, DCV will make more sense for my house (which is 50 years old) than a mechanical ventilation heat recovery system. Online seems to indicate MVHR is best suited to very air right houses which, even after some work, I might not get fully (e.g. I'm not getting any work done on the floor).



  • Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭gandalfio


    Just on this. We have mechanical extract ventilation (non heat recovery) in wet rooms (kitchen, bathrooms, utility). Kicthen, living room and bedrooms have the holes in the walls vents. There's a savage amount of heat loss in the home, even though is new build A2 rated. I know the vents in the walls are to bring fresh air in to replace the air removed by the MEV, but are those wall vents totally necessary if they cause so much heat loss? Is there another way?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Also afaik we feel warmer at a lower temp with less moisture in the air. Warm air holds more moisture, but makes us colder (somehow). So you’re on a winner it seems! 

    When the moisture level in the air is lower due to appropriate ventilation, the moisture level in the (external) structure is also lower and because the insulation layer(s) make up part of the external structure, the insulation will be dryer and therefore better at insulating (the corollary is also true). This in turn allows us to 'feel' warmer (more comfortable) at lower internal temperatures.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Do the wall vents not have valves which open/close automatically depending on internal conditions?

    (probably dragging this thread off topic)



  • Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭gandalfio


    No, there's no automatic opening closing. Just a slider at the bottom of the vent to open and close. We keep it closed, but it might as well be open for all the good it does.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    Does anyone know what the point of this Electric Ireland plan is?

    So with heat pumps you have constant hot water and heating(based on the diff between outside temp and whatever you have set on your unit). For air source heat pump the fan spins up whenever required to heat domestic hot water or the house heating water. Are they implying all your water heating needs can be mostly handled by warmer temperature outside during the day and at night time when it needs to pull from the grid it can be done cheaper using this rate.

    If so is anyone on this kind of rate with an ASHO and can you comment is it saving you money?



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    Most heat pumps have a DHW mode that you configure to come on at certain times of the day. During these times the heatpump can output “hotter” water than usual; to get a tank of water up to temp faster and to a higher temp.

    they are suggesting that you can go with this plan and set the DHW mode to charge the tank between 2-4 am.

    I do exactly this now with my eddi to get the water up to 60C each night:

    Which used 5kWh of power last night. With a heatpump doing that you might only consume 2kwh at the worst case.

    The jump in temp of the water between 5-6 Pm is done by oil boiler; and only raises the temp to 45C for the baby’s bath.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    We were told by our installer just keep the DHW always on so that the ASHP just needs to spin up occasionally to keep water temp level correct. The idea being it takes a lot less energy to do that than if you set it to have hot water ready at certain times of the day(i.e. not having to heat a big tank of water up from luke warm to 45c).

    So to me it doesn't make sense to heat up the water in the tank to 60c from 2-4am because by the time you'd wake up in the morning it's more than likely cooled back down to 45c anyway rendering the whole process pointless. I dunno, maybe I'm just overthinking this or I'm not using the DHW correctly. We don't have any solar btw, just the air source heat pump



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    Yeah I don’t think you’re using it right. With my tank I’m only loosing 1-2C between 4am (when it stops heating the water) and 8am (when I have my shower). And I’m not even sure I’m loosing that energy; I’d say it’s just the water stratification in the tank settling down after the heating stops.

    I would assume your heatpump produces a higher flow temp when it’s in DHW mode than what it is configured for your rads / UFH. If it’s constantly topping up the hot water as you use it during the day it will be constantly modulating between a lower flow temp for the heating and a higher flow temp for the DHW. And considering that the electricity between 2-4 am is 1/4 of the price it is during the day it makes sense to me to front load all this DHW into that 2 hour period.

    Sorry; don’t mean to say what you’re doing is wrong; just my understanding is that you could set it up in a way what might work out Cheeper in the long run. Your way your always guaranteed to have a full tank of water at your preferred temperature.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    I'm just worried if I set the DHW to run for several hours during the night then I'll only get lukewarm water if trying to have a shower at say 6pm in the evening. I suppose I could have it come on again during the day for a couple of hours(like pic below) to top up the heat. Maybe something worth trying out alright.


    With regards flow modulation the default setting is like this and seems to manage fine.


    I've no way to get detailed stats on how much energy is being generated and how much is pulled from the grid for our system. Its an IVT Air X installed about 8 years ago. I think you can buy some WiFi adapter and have it retrofitted but then the app isn't even available here in Ireland unfortunately



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    Can you set the temperature separately for DHW? If you don’t already have a baseline or how much your HP is consuming then making a change is pointless; as you will never know if it has had a positive or negative impact on the overall amount of energy consumed.

    You could quit easily install a CT clamp on your grid and also your heat-pump circuit to give you some useful data. Look up Shelly EM.

    It would also be nice to have a probe measuring the temperature of the hot water in your cylinder.

    Without this data it would all be guesswork and you could make things worse rather than better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    so eddi used 5kWh last night but using the HP might only have consumed 2. why did you go with the eddi instead of the HP between 2 and 4am may i ask?

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap




  • Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,019 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    The main unit does let you set the DHW temp and what the current temp is.

    It's just very frustrating not to be able to access all the useful data on heat pump through an app of some sort. We were told life span of the heat pump was roughly 15 years so I guess we wait another 7 years and look at getting something more modern and connected then



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    You could buy and install this:

    then you would be able to make informed decisions about changes to your settings. If / when I get a heat pump I’m definitely factoring in the cost of getting this installed as part of the project.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 bajj


    Hello all,

    I am looking for recommendations for a heating engineer in the Cork area to help me with setting up my home heating system. I have underfloor heating combined with a Grant Aerona air to water heat pump. There are two air thermostat zones. The house is 3 years old with MHRV, excellent insulation and very good air tightness. Overall I am happy with the system, however I am not convinced I am operating it efficiently or effectively, for example there is a significant time lag from when the system switches in as demanded by the thermostat and when the room actually reaches the required temperature and then the rooms temp overshoots the required temp and gets too hot. I also do not fully understand the system and its controls. I am hoping to find an engineer who I can employ to fully explain the system to me and how best to operate it. Recommendations welcome.

    Thank you.

    BAJJ



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    You will need it serviced every year to keep it in warrantee for the first 5 or so year so the first port of call woudl be to call Grant and they might have (Should have) an approved service person in the area

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    @bajj What part of Cork?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 bajj


    Kinsale



  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Cushtie


    Anyone have daiken altherma heat pump?

    Just want to compare a few settings



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Anyone one on here have an M-Tec heat pump



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 phil_space


    180 m2 house. A2 rated. 3 inhabitants (1 long-shower-loving teenager!). Ufh downstairs, rads upstairs. 10 kWh HP installed in May. Thermostat set to 21C for space heating, 50C for DHW.

    Figures for October - 103 kWh for space heating; 74 for DHW. Avg. daily combined figure for Oct 5.72 kWh. However, it's been much colder in November so average by day so far 12.5 kWh.

    As this is my first winter with the HP, I'm really interested in seeing other Boardies data!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    That doesn't seem bad at all. Likewise, mine has shot up so far this month to about 14kWh/day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 phil_space


    Yep. I can see your house is a 1/3 bigger than mine and you have the thermostat set to 22C, so 14 kWh/day is pretty impressive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    It's okay, but could always be lower! Like others on here, I've been experimenting with the flow temperatures in an attempt to optimise performance. Operating at 38degC at the moment (which is a bit higher than others who have UFH only) but the HP seems to be performing well enough. I'm also getting it serviced to ensure flow rates etc. are sound.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Are you running fixed flow temp or weather compensation and is it stats turning on and off pump or running constantly.



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