Island's edge opinions

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 9:15am

It was all there in the launch PR bumf:

“We wanted to expand the category, to rejuvenate it and offer the consumer a new style of stout.” Paula Conlon, marketing manager for stout at Heineken told me. “The market had no innovation and was really quite stagnant. We wanted to offer something different to consumers, to appeal to people who hadn’t considered stout before.” The branding is light and colourful and should stand apart from the traditional black and white of other stouts.

“We asked ourselves ‘what is it about stout that people find difficult’?” Tierney told me. “The feedback we got was they can drink one pint but not a second one, or they don’t like the bitter aftertaste, or it’s an acquired taste, or that they felt full afterwards.”

“We also found that people found stout heavy, so the third thing we did was bring up the body of Island’s Edge to make it very smooth and creamy.” It has the same acidity and alcohol as a regular stout.

The Irish Times, 9th July 2021.

Personally I blame the public for feeding the Heineken people a load of absolute nonsense at the focus groups, and then when they developed the product to those specs, decided they didn't want it.

"They felt full afterwards". FFS. I am 100% convinced that the perception of modern dry stout being a heavy beer comes down to the connotation of the word "stout" and nothing else. If it was called "toasted beer" or the like, this wouldn't happen.

Beanstalk · 03-11-2023 9:18am

The whole black tea thing was weird.

I'm just amazed in general at the monopoly Guinness has. Its pretty impressive. Almost the whole world associates Ireland with it and it would be impossible to compete with.

I'd love to get pints of Beamish in the North-West

waterwelly · 03-11-2023 9:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318594#Comment_121318594

Guinness is similar to Coca Cola in that it's something the whole world associates and very few competitors are making an impact.

odyssey06 · 03-11-2023 9:28am

Cute Hoor was another Heineken offering seemed to have died a similar death as Islands Edge, red ale offering instead of Smithwicks.

irish_goat · 03-11-2023 9:29am

"The branding is light and colourful and should stand apart from the traditional black and white of other stouts."

Have they not seen their own branding?

waterwelly · 03-11-2023 9:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318626#Comment_121318626

How long did Applemans cider last?

It's hard to compete with Bulmers, they already had Orchard Thieves, then launched another.

Sound familiar?

Blisterman · 03-11-2023 9:34am

Cute Hoor was a Pale Ale when it launched. Then they rebranded it to an IPA, despite it not actually being anything like an IPA. It's sole purpose seems to have been to convince pub owners that they already have an IPA on tap. So don't need to get any others.

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 9:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318609#Comment_121318609

The trick is to get your product established in the 19th century, when honest hard-working enterprises were unencumbered by annoying things like competition law. If you can attach yourself to a voracious globe-spanning imperial power structure, all the better. They don't teach that at Harvard Business School.

irish_goat · 03-11-2023 9:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318594#Comment_121318594

The Anchor Bar in Derry has it now. £4 a pint too, which isn't bad for the city centre.

El Gato De Negocios · 03-11-2023 9:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318579#Comment_121318579

Ya I dont get this. Ive been a Guinness drinker for nearly 20 years and have never felt "full" on it. Quite the contrary in fact, if I was to drink lager in a pub, 4 or 5 pints would have me bloated as a bullfrog but I could throw back 10 pints of Guinness easily. I genuinely think its because people didnt want to say they simply didnt like the taste of Guinness so this notion of it being like a dinner was born.

Grumpypants · 03-11-2023 9:43am

I had 10 pints of Guinness on Sunday and still had room for a snack box.

techman1 · 03-11-2023 9:43am

Carlsberg has at least some international profile, champions league etc.

Budweiser Irish Derby anyone?

Carlsberg is a huge drink internationally, it has fallen behind here because Heineken grabbed the "lager" association and then pushed Carlsberg out of alot of pubs if they only sold the Heineken beers .

Carlsberg brewed by Guinness here is far superior to the Carlsberg you get in the UK, its a pity can't get the dublin Carlsberg up north to avoid the MUP rip off here, Carlsberg up north seems to be the Northampton brewed stuff 3.8% alcohol

whisky_galore · 03-11-2023 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318419#Comment_121318419

Let's have design a stout for a demographic that doesn't drink anyway.

beardo81 · 03-11-2023 9:54am

I am in the extreme minority but I really enjoyed drinking Islands Edge - my local bar served it. However, I was pretty much the only one drinking it.

I usually drink Guinness but it is still definitely hit and miss in some bars, consistency remains an issue. Wherever I had IE it always seemed consistent, however they did it.

They have replaced the tap with Murphys already, I will have a few pints of that in future but nothing is breaking that Guinness monopoly. They are so iconic there is unlimited free advertising for them all over social media channels.

Islands Edge marketing was absolutely awful and the off license cans had a crap widget or whatever it is that gives the head. I will miss the pub pint but no sympathy for Heineken losing their bollix after fluffing the launch and subsequent ongoing promotion of it. Awful name too.

the beer revolu · 03-11-2023 9:59am

I think it's the nitro serving style that has people thinking Irish stout is "heavy". It's because it feels thicker like cream that puts it in people's minds. That and the colour and it's relative opacity gives a "rich" perception.

Blisterman · 03-11-2023 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318755#Comment_121318755

I my student days, when challenged to a pint downing race, (Aww those were the days) I always picked Guinness to the astonishment of the opposition who assumed it was a thick heavy drink, whereas it's actually much easier to down without all the fizziness of lagers.

listermint · 03-11-2023 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318869#Comment_121318869

And less drink as the head removes volume.

Smart.

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318755#Comment_121318755

If so, Heineken decided to address the problem by producing another nitrogenated stout. Well done, lads. Didn't see that coming.

I know nitro red is barely a thing any more, but it doesn't have the same perception. As regards the colour, do these people think a slice of toast is more calorific than raw bread? What are they teaching them?

breezy1985 · 03-11-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318626#Comment_121318626

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121317922#Comment_121317922

Cute Hoor and Islands Edge are both attempts to make fake craft beer to fool more casual beer drinkers.

Happy to see both fail. Big giant fekwits like Heineken can't just be happy with their huge brands and have to try take every little bit of the market.

L1011 · 03-11-2023 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318689#Comment_121318689

3.4%! Cut to get in under a lower duty rate

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 11:32am

@breezy1985 Anyone who thinks they're a "craft beer drinker" but doesn't do basic research into what they're drinking is an idiot who deserves to be fleeced by a multinational brewery. It's like a vegetarian just assuming there's no meat in their sandwich, eating it, and then getting angry about the ham. If you genuinely care whether something is real "craft beer" or not, you do your homework. Otherwise, enjoy the industrial slop which nobody made you drink.

The fact is that the multinationals noticed there's a tiny bit of diversity in the beer market now (about 3% of it) and they reckon that they can take advantage of that; not necessarily to steal its market share, but to build out their own. I don't think it's malicious, any more than the rest of capitalism is.

Beanstalk · 03-11-2023 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318650#Comment_121318650

Cheers was sad to hear about the Grand Central they always had a decent selection and nice wee pub to sit downstairs in.

Yerevan is beautiful · 03-11-2023 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319213#Comment_121319213

What is your definition of craft beer?

Is Tesco’s own brand? Definitely not!

Duvel? Delicious but still mass produced.

Chimay? Likewise.

Can you name a specific “craft beer” that meets your criteria?

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319233#Comment_121319233

It's not a term I use much, or attach any specific meaning to, hence the inverted commas.

breezy1985 · 03-11-2023 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319213#Comment_121319213

I don't think these people think they are "craft beer drinkers" but they might like an IPA so if the Heineken brand fails it's more likely the pub fills the gap with craft. In the Netherlands Heineken is a brewery not a lager and there is Heineken Black and Weisse beer. Would have no issue with them doing that like Smithwicks and Guinness have done in Ireland.

The macros can practice all the capitalism they want but it doesn't mean I can't be happy when they fail at it.

Yerevan is beautiful · 03-11-2023 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319256#Comment_121319256

Apologies. I’m only awake. On nights this week 😂

I’m normally a Guinness man in the pub and Duvel at home.

If you like wine try kindzmarauli.

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319278#Comment_121319278

I'm not for a second denying you your happiness 😁 But it sounds like you think every big brewery product should have a bell around its neck warning unwary customers it's unclean.

I'm first in the queue when campaigning for transparency in beer provenance, and I'll note here that Cute Hoor and Island's Edge packaged beer is fully legally compliant on that front, whereas products from small independent breweries frequently aren't. We could have a law that makes it a requirement to put the brewer's company name on the tap badge or pub menu, but there would still be legal loopholes that dishonest or disingenuous brewers could exploit. I don't think there's a better solution than the consumer simply paying attention, and being suspicious if they have concerns. We're not going to get a situation where Madrí taps have a sign saying "WARNING: ACTUALLY BREWED BY MOLSON COORS IN ENGLAND" on them. If provenance is a concern, look it up; if you're casual about it, then no harm is done by you thinking it's the authentic taste of Madrid.

And Smithwick's's hands are far from clean on this. I toured the brewery just before it shut in 2013. There was a Guinness tanker in the yard and the guide helpfully explained that, since the 1960s, Smithwick's arranges for Guinness to do their distribution for them. Lads...

breezy1985 · 03-11-2023 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319340#Comment_121319340

Of course there should be no law against not having the brewery on the badge. I just think they are knobs for doing It.

Although Madri having "Madrid" on the label should be illegal. The beer has never had anything to do with Madrid as far as I'm aware.

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319386#Comment_121319386

That's arguably illegal already: EU Regulation 1169/2011, Article 7, 1(a). But somebody would have to complain, and a problem in this country is that the people you complain to are the Food Safety Authority who are a bit busy keeping cockroaches out of your chips.

breezy1985 · 03-11-2023 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319446#Comment_121319446

Never knew that. I always assumed it would be a consumer watchdog.

techman1 · 03-11-2023 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319120#Comment_121319120

I'm certain it's 3.8% , in any case why would that just affect carlsberg but not other beers like Heineken or Stella artois, surely they would all be lower alcohol in the North if duties were a primary concern

JVince · 03-11-2023 2:23pm

Finally tried islands edge a couple of weeks ago as it was €7 for 4 in Tesco. Basically I found the concept so unappealing that it took me, as a stout drinker, until now to try it

In the pub I drink guinness, at home it would be Blacks / Rye River for stout.

Island's edge was woeful. too many flavours trying to merge and unless it was ice cold, it simply did not taste well. It may well have suited some people, but at the end of the day Guinness has 30% of the on trade market and trying to recreate the wheel was never going to work. I think if they went the route of adding a bit of carbonation and effectively a black smithwicks, it may have worked better.

The other things is the name - it means nothing whatsoever and does not trip off the tongue. Smacks of a focus group that way way over thought the process

I don't think anyone will miss it

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320093#Comment_121320093

Here's the announcement:

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2023/07/13/Carlsberg-lowering-UK-alcohol-content

Different companies make different business decisions. There's no reason that AB InBev or Heineken would have to follow what Carlsberg is doing with its flagship. Heineken UK ceased brewing a special low-strength UK version a few years back and made a big deal of it all now being the full-fat Dutch 5%. I think Ireland may be the only country that brews/imports a weak local variant.

L1011 · 03-11-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320093#Comment_121320093

It's 3.4% now, and it's because they decided to do the cut themselves - it's not compulsory. It just saves them a LOT of money

Butson · 03-11-2023 5:14pm

Even the two names...island and edge. Difficult to order at the bar and sound like a knob saying "can I have an island" or can I have an "edge"

e.g Coors Light has two words, but its Coors!

All in all, what a disaster. Two lovely stouts already in their portfolio. Give them the love they deserve and market them properly with a national presence in pubs.

BeerNut · 03-11-2023 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121321080#Comment_121321080

There is no beer on the Irish or UK market called "Coors Light". It's just "Coors".

squonk · 03-11-2023 5:25pm

Read the release and laughed at the part about getting away from the black and white of other stouts marketing… except Beamish which is a red logo and Murphy’s have had some nice colourful logos over the years.

I honestly think this was adobe short of solo run by some knobs trying to be the big man in marketing terms so they could say they launched a big Guinness competitor and ended up inventing a beer nobody asked for and BOI drinkers wanted.

As regards the craft/non craft thing, drink what you enjoy and that’s it. I’ll drink Smithwicks or Guinness out but if I get a local brewery in a pub I’ll give them a whirl. At home it’s all local craft Irish breweries and a few international beers I like. Just d drink what you enjoy and don’t apologise for it.

XsApollo · 03-11-2023 5:33pm

I had a few pints of this. Thought it was grand.

Not A session drink. I didn’t mind having one or 2 pints of this, the same as a Murphy’s or beamish, if I was out for a meal or something, I can’t stomach any of them outside of that.

Guinness is the only I could drink multiples of when out on the piss.

retalivity · 03-11-2023 7:32pm

Theres still a few places round with cute hoor on tap, i always liked it tbh.

Islands edge was just weird tasting, couldnt tell if i liked it or not, and so never ordered it after an initial tasting

the beer revolu · 03-11-2023 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121321080#Comment_121321080

Ah, here. I'm sure there's many nuanced reasons why this failed but I don't think this is one of them. Island's edge has the same number of syllables as Heineken! It's not exactly a mouthful.