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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    your asking an rte lifer for an answer.they just throw out bs .and then she used to be on rte at the ploughing for yrs .hypocrite

    just got an email saying my license fee is due.another reason not to pay it.thanks aine



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    quick better cull more cows and Jack up that carbon tax here in Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,034 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Peer review does use expert reviewers who can assess the credibility of a claim. The data is presented in such a way that the claim can be checked which is the real purpose of peer review to present ideas in a way that the greater expert community to both learn and check results. This is the stage at which retractions take place and the rate of retracts in between 0.02 -0.04%.

    The process works at filtering out fraud and errors in data handling.

    I have never heard anyone but right wing loons seriously question peer review as been illigitimate and it goes hand in hand with the political tactic of questioning expertise when an ideological position runs counter to the evidence. I see no evidence that this is not your position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They don't repeat the study to verify the results, but they make sure the methodology is sound and the papers conclusions are consistent with the data. A million times better than the nonsense that gets posted on blogs and in YouTube channels

    Not all peer review is equal (obviously) , there are loads of inferior journals and paper mills. When I post links to studies, I try to only link to the more reputable journals who have the most to lose by allowing sub standard research to get out under their banner (sometimes I link to where those papers free to read and not pay walled, but the papers are still published in good journals)



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    What I choose to post about is of absolutely no concern to you.

    When I see chicken little nonsense posted I'll call it out as such.

    There is still so much not known about our climate and how or what actually affects it. In fact, the role of methane and it's signalling is something that is causing a bit of a stir at the moment. Some of the increased methane observed is a result of humans but a majority is from natural sources. How we solve that is going to be interesting. But, you stick to the script and worry about CO2 levels raising from historically low values and blame it all on that all you want. It won't actually achieve anything but it may make you feel superior to us lesser mortals who don't read the IPCC Summary report for policy makers as gospel.


    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,395 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Sell up to who exactly? Crazy ideas. Does she know how many billions it would cost to buy all that land?

    Its a 21st century land grab. Multi national companies buying land to off set their carbon credits.


    Isn't coastal erosion along the SE coast due to the soil type where it is primarily sand with little rock?


    Exactly, sand and gravel deposits that are easily washed away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,034 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Me

    Methane is one of the identified positive feedbacks, it's increase is directly caused by the warming caused by man made emissions causing thawing of permofrosts. There is literally nothing contraversial about this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Consistent with what data though? The peer reviewers don't have access to models or experiments or any actual hard data. They look for obvious errors in any calculations used but, and this is the important bit so pay attention, do not in any way stand over the veracity of any claims within the paper.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Beautiful circular logic I must say. If you start with the conclusion that everything is a man made problem then it's soooo easy to blame everything on it.

    You clearly didn't bother your hoop watching it anyway so I'm not surprised.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Post what you like. What you don't say is just as informative as what you do say



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    In fact, it's what scientists have been warning us about for years. There is no safe level of global warming, but the more ghgs we continue to emmit, the more we risk activating these positive feedbacks which can snowball and amplify human caused warming.

    This is shy it needs to be treated as an emergency.

    By the time the feedbacks are activated it's too late to stop them, we can only hope to stop them from getting completely out of control



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The peer reviewers should have access to the data collected and submitted as part of the study, and should have access to all of the referenced studies through their institution



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I see the vast majority of the air quality in Ireland is classed as good by the EPA

    You can look at the daily scores for all the monitoring stations too. (this link is October in Naas)

    Each stations latest measurement score for Air Quality is here. Letterkenny is a major outlier. Everywhere else the air quality is "Good"

    "Good" in these readings is a score of 1,2 or 3. Most stations are reading 1 or 2.

    We're doing very well



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Or, we can just not use 'peer review' at all. It has been so much devalued as to make it a stamp for idiots. I go even further: to use 'peer review' to promote a paper/study is a red flag. I am not saying one should not go back and forth with editors and/or people in the field to flesh out inconsistencies/errors, just dont mention it. A paper is as good as the data and the inferences. If they lack cohesion it will show. I get the feeling that peer review is there to protect the publishers from embarrassment and to let the author(s)off the hook. So why use it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,034 ✭✭✭Shoog


    It's really hasn't been discredited and it serves its function. There are no other viable models that offer gatekeeping to academic standards.

    What's a red flag to you simply displays your biases against conclusions you disagree with - that isnt an argument. Fortunately no one is going to act on your opinions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    They should, but they don't. Your post is not correct.

    No data is provided, apart from what is included within the manuscript. Furthermore, my company provides zero access to referenced studies. As I am not a career academic, I have to buy the papers if I want to read them.

    TBH as a reviewer is typically a volunteer, they probably won't have the time to replicate the analysis anyway.

    Think of peer reviewers as a Moderator on here. I can say that "climate change is great because it makes the world a bit more exciting to live in and gives me the opportunity to make money" in one statement and because none of that is factually incorrect and it abides by the requirements for publication, it is allowed through. In another statement, I can say that "climate change is terrible because it causes uncertainty in the world and mitigating it is expensive". This is also factually correct and for the same reasons is allowed to be published.

    Similar to the Journal publishers, boards.ie makes money from my posting (content and advertising) whilst relying on the Moderator's voluntary contribution. Thankfully, they don't (yet) charge us for every post we make in the way authors pay for their manuscripts.

    The big questions are "How much of your content would you be willing to pay for in order to post here?" and "Who would pay to read it?"



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    But I thought our air quality was crap a few weeks ago and it was killing us all.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is more biodiversity in Ireland today that there has been in the last 12,000 years. 

    I've seen some really stupid stuff posted here over the last few years, but this takes the award



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We are several years along this journey already, decades in the case of renewables. By all means outline the negative impacts on the nations metrics as a result of the actions taken so far.

    For clean air, how have improvements through reducing smoky fuels, switching to EVs etc, negatively impacted the nations finances.

    For clean water, we are still a long way away on this, however lots has still been done so please outline how improvements made to waste treatment (large and/or small), reduction in agri pollution etc, have negatively impacted the nations finances.

    and so on

    Note, as the finances of the country are publicly available information, please include sources to back up your response. Baseless waffle will be ignored



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Pot kettle

    We did the same thing here with Moneypoint



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Its easy meet easy limits

    We fail when compared to WHO limits. This is why we are switching to the WHO limits, because the air quality is often crap yet we still show as green

    That these limits will be more challenging to meet bodes well for air quality in built up areas



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    So the answer to a problem that doesn't exist is to introduce stricter limits until a problem exists? What makes us so sure that the WHO limits are appropriate?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We aligned to EU limits. The EU has agreed to align to the WHO

    Why are the new limits appropriate

    MEPs want to harmonise currently-fragmented and unintuitive air quality indices across the EU. Indices must be comparable, clear and publically available, with hourly updates so citizens can protect themselves during high levels of air pollution (and before obligatory alert thresholds are reached). They shall be accompanied by information about symptoms associated with air pollution peaks and the associated health risks for each pollutant, including information tailored to vulnerable groups.

    Parliament also wants citizens whose health is damaged to have a stronger right to compensation when the new rules are infringed.

    As for it being a problem

    Air pollution continues to be the number one environmental cause of early death in the EU with around 300 000 premature deaths per year (check here to see how clean the air is in European cities), with the most harmful being PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 and O3, according to the EEA. In October 2022, the Commission proposed a revision of the EU air quality rules with more ambitious targets for 2030 to achieve the zero pollution objective by 2050 in line with the Zero Pollution Action Plan.

    This legislation is responding to citizens' expectations concerning pollution and “greener” cities with lower emissions as well as raising awareness by providing regularly updated pollution information, as expressed in proposals 2(2), 4(6) and 6(1) of the conclusions of the Conference on the Future of Europe.

    This approach is also agreed govt policy

    To flip it back to you, you appear to be opposed to cleaner air, is there a reason why you want dirtier air?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    There is much more variety in species of animals and plants in Ireland today than there have been in the past. We have more variety and nutrition in our diet today, than many of our ancestors did, in fact we grow taller. I have 200 different plants cultivated in my garden, most of which are non-native species. All of the vegetables I grow have been bred for yield and even flavour, several of these plants are F1 hybrids. Where do you think all the tomato seed comes from to grow the supermarket tomatoes. Even when in comes to animals, there are several breeds of sheep, goats and cattle that displaced the original imports. Not only that, the latest census shows they are humans here from all over the world, a fairly diverse genetic admixture. or do humans not count as biodiversity. The magpie only arrived in Ireland during the 11th century, the brown rat arrived in the 1700s, the rabbit and Sycamore trees came in with the Normans, not to mention the various plants bought in via the monastic orders e.g. Montbretia that you see growing across the south west of Ireland is non native.

    The point about 12,000 years is there is no such thing as a static environment, how the land is used has changed substantially over time, the species that thrived in previous ecological niche have had to adapt all through that time, meaning some fare less well or worse for them, go extinct and other species do really well in the new environment. All of this is a balancing act.

    Of 191 bird and mammal species recorded as having gone extinct since 1500, 95% were on islands, where humans and human-introduced predators and diseases wrought the destruction. Source: Historical bird and terrestrial mammal extinction rates and causes (Craig Loehle).

    The alarmists are extrapolating from the island extinction rates with wild guesses or just plain fear mongering. The attribution to climate change is just more computer model game gone wild and has no basis in fact. There is no evidence to support these extinction scenarios. The cute furry animal that alarmists promoted as the mascot for climate change, the Polar bear, has even been dropped from climate propaganda, because their numbers are growing, since the hunting ban in place since the early 1970s, as an unfortunate schoolboy from Eton found out they are still around.

    The use of hydrocarbons has meant there is more forest cover today in Western Europe than the 19th century when more people depended on subsistence farming and wood for heat and construction material, the whales that were nearly hunted to extinction for their oil have recovered, somewhat ironically, offshore wind turbines are negatively affecting a species of whale, in the United States.

    The Greens false ideologies, anti-development agendas and suffocating regulations are not necessarily going to have the effect on wildlife that they imagine it will, Ireland is not a wildlife theme park.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Controversial is you still sticking to "warming" when nothing like that is happening and your fellow alarmists transitioned to "climate change" quite a long time ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    EV's is a fad which is losing its momentum anyway. Talking about clean air while conveniently quiet about pollution caused by mining lithium and power generating to keep these toys on the road.


    Demand for EVs is souring as the "number of unsold electric vehicles at dealers in the second quarter tripled compared to the past year, signaling a weakened demand for the segment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,034 ✭✭✭Shoog


    That old chestnut, it shows a profound ignorance of the long standing terminology on your part.

    Global warming (which is measured and real) causes climate to change, it has be referred to in these terms for decades.

    I was correcting people on this a decade ago, some myths never die.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Holy jaysus. What the EPA have shown is that the air quality is good in Ireland. It can be better and there's work ongoing to achieve that. But you aren't happy because of some rules we don't follow yet will say it's not as good when using the existing methodology.

    How many of the alleged 300000 deaths in the EU are a direct response to air quality? Like, the air is killing them and it's the only thing. How premature is premature? How are they determining this is the cause?

    How does Ireland currently fare in terms of air quality vs. the rest of the EU? Use a metric that's common across the board - WHO I assume. A cursory google would show that coastal areas and indeed islands fare much better than central Europe. We'll still be damn near the top even when we change over to WHO.

    An interesting one is that we currently exceed the WHO recommendation for NO2, despite it being primarily riven by fossil fuels - https://whoairquality.shinyapps.io/AirQualityStandards/



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,034 ✭✭✭Shoog


    There is a measurable correlation between respiratory and pulmonary caused deaths and urban air quality. How significant you feel this is a personal decision.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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