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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    If the greens in thread put their pensions where their ideology lies, they would have no pensions left now

    absolute carnage last few weeks in companies related to wind and solar

    Likes of Siemens looking for bailouts



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Or it could just be hard-headed business logic: If someone is going to eat your lunch it should ideally be yourself. I wonder how much of the current offshore wind turbine installation is done by oil well/rig subcontractors who decided to diversify.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    I don't believe it's that deep. This class (by wealth) does not bear the consequences of their luxury beliefs. For people in these circles giving grants from their tax efficient foundations to eNGOs is mostly virtue signalling. It gives them a nice feeling they are saving the environment while continuing to travel first class and do what they always have done. Some like Mr. Michael Bloomberg have investments, that line up with their grants. In case you are scratching your head wondering how XR get away with blocking the general public, Extinction rebellion has money behind it. XR did not block private jets at COP26 in Glasgow, they blocked the public.


    Take at look at the climate category in the grant portfolio for hedge fund billionaire Sir Chris Hohn, it's called the Childrens investment fund.

    One organisation that stands out and shows up occasionally in Irish eNGOs accounts is the European Climate Foundation: https://europeanclimate.org/funding-grantmaking/

    There is quite an industry there, you can use Linkedin, to observe the movements of personnel and relations between these organisations. If you do get a job with the eNGOs, you could be spending time writing grant applications.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hopes dashed for some, that's all you party leaders in agreement that the current govt will run for its full term until Mar 2025

    RTE news : Tánaiste says he would like the Govt to run to 2025





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    That's not news. All 3 leaders in the coalition have been saying that for some time. They are right too - they should stay the course. They've been elected to do that.

    The wishes of most here is for the Green Party to get no where near government again. I'd like it too. I don't think it would matter as government policy is driven by NGOs moreso than any politician or party. And there are lots of NGOs in bending the ear of those that are making the decisions. Whether the greens are there or not, very little will change though I suspect some of the more "wild" stuff may be put on the back burner, or existing commitments spread out over a longer timeframe.

    If SF get in though, I've no idea the direction any existing policy will take



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Every party approved all the plans already. Only ones that didn't were a handful of independents

    That includes SF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Plans change. Look at Germany who have the finance minister saying plans to shut coal may be pushed back



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Plans can be modified without issue so long as the targets can still be met



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    Or targets... well, moved. We've seen this played out for as long as politics have existed in anything remotely resembling a democracy for almost half a millennium now. If you think environmental targets won't be moved, watered down, timelines extended, etc... then you're fairly naïve.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nope. It's already been shown in the Supreme court that the targets have to be met

    I've said it many times, the methods by which we reduce emissions to meet targets can be altered but only where it can be shown that the targets can still be achieved.

    The original climate action plan was struck down by the Supreme court as it could not be shown or interpreted by regular folk, as to how the targets would be achieved.

    The CAP's since then have fixed a lot of this however FIE have been given leave again for another legal challenge as the current plans still can't show how the targets can be achieved. They will likely win this challenge again based on the previous ruling which means even stricter CAP's will follow, regardless of the parties in power.

    We've also got EU obligations to meet the targets too. As it stands right now, based on current projections, we'll be paying over 750 million in fines before 2030 and they will exceed 1 billion following that and will increase rapidly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Targets can change. Legal texts can change.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not these I'm afraid, well, not without pulling an Irexit because the EU would also oppose (in the courts) any deviation.

    Besides, all parties voted for these targets and none are going to change them.

    Besides, the electorate fully support the targets and the work to achieve them as evidenced by the recent surveys which showed massive support.

    It would be a stupid move, politically, for any party on that basis and would not be supported by other parties in govt and would likely lead to a collapse of said govt. They have collapsed for a heck of a lot less.

    You are looking for a govt to pull back from Irish law, Irish courts, EU law and agreements and international agreements

    Won't happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭ginger22


    These laws and targets will all be changed when Germany need to have them changed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Yes. It seems the big players want a seat at the table where the decisions are made, rules are set and subsidies granted ie where the power grab really takes place like bankers in the BIS in Switzerland.

    As the wind and solar production companies run into difficulties the investment portfolio of those oil companies/funds will most surely be 'recalibrated'. I think most of them like to brand themselves as 'good' people when they share the table with politicians and celebrities. You can kind of guess what happens to their high moral ground when the **** hits the fan. The will stop green investment and leave the likes of Siemens hanging in the, well, wind. Same with Solar Force.

    The people carrying out the green tech installations would like to extract as much money as possible while the going is good. They can move into other areas. Who can blame them? You just have to see all these things in context..



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭rdser


    With all due respect, the above is very politically naive. Nothing is ever a given in politics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Precisely. You will also see public support draining away if / when the average punter cops on that they're on the hook for a billion a year in fines. Or that the only way of meeting targets involves tripling electricity prices. Public support right now depends on universal ignorance of what's coming down the tracks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,459 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    A Billion a year in fines is chickenfeed compared to how much it will cost if we don't mitigate climate change.

    The severe flooding in Germany last year cost Germans over 40 billion from a single event

    The cost of this year's flooding in Middleton will be hundreds of millions.

    This is at 1.2c of warming. We're on track to triple that if countries fail to meet their commitments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Bsharp


    We're not meeting the 2030 targets no matter how legally binding they are. The challenges are associated with the scientific real world and how our society functions.

    We're a few major public transport infrastructure projects cancellations/delays away from demand management plans being completely untenable and transport targets missed.

    No amount of words on a page will change the fact we are incapable of delivering everything we need to in the time available.

    Post edited by Bsharp on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,708 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The skeptics always miss the downside costs of doing nothing. A strange form of amnezia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,633 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Meeting climate targets will not prevent such floods. It may slightly reduce the severity and frequency but property in flood plains will continue to flood. What we need to do is reverse decades of corrupt and incompetent planning which has funnelled people and construction projects into flood plains. That will cost a fortune and also take decades.

    The massive costs to solve these problems are already locked in and can not possibly be avoided. It suits the politicians though to just shrug shoulders and blame climate change for the floods. An added bonus is they can hammer people with carbon taxes to ‘save the world’.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,459 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You do not realise that the floods of 2022 are nothing compared to the floods of 2050 if we don't stop climate change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,114 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Meeting targets at a global level will impact the overall frequency of such events. At the moment, frequency is increasing.


    Also in relation to people saying EVs are dead in the water. At current rates of oil usage, we have 47 years left. So even if you wanted to pretend climate change isn't caused by humans, the price of fuel will exponentially increase in the next few decades. I also wouldn't be using a single year of sales as proof that EVs are somehow dead in the water, things like infrastructure catching up etc are at play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭prunudo


    You, me, us can't stop climate change. We can mitigate against it but to think we can stop the clinate changed is both niave and arrogant in equal measures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,708 ✭✭✭Shoog


    We can prevent climate change by eliminating greenhouse gases, a certain amount is already locked in - but we can change the endpoint. We can also draw down a substantial amount of the greenhouse gases we have already pumped into the atmosphere slowing the changes even more.

    But I suspect what you really are alluding to Is the fantasy that this is all just natural.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭prunudo


    We can reduce our impact, believing we can control it or even stop it, is the fantasy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,708 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Which is precisely what I described. The world has changed because of man's activities, but we can stop the drivers causing more change which are firmly under our control.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Since you are into balance sheets lately did you bother looking on the other side of the balance sheet? How much has all the nice weather saved us? How much is the extended growing season worth? how about the improved crop yields?, the global greening effect?. The fact is we like nice weather, and millions of people from northern Europe seek out the benefits of the sunshine and warmth by going to the Mediterranean region each year.

    Bad weather does not equal climate change and these shysters cannot demonstrate that if the climate was static that these events would not occur, in fact the historical record shows these events have occurred in the past, with far more devastating consequences for people and animals. Alarmists can't even tell us what the temperature should be, nor how much taxes we must pay to control the weather. It is a fatal conceit.

    Latest scaremongering from the Greens.



    This is typical of an end of times cult, the above image has NO BASIS IN REALITY, there is not even science behind it. It is an artists (Jason Simons) impression derived from unskilled computer projections (RCP 8.5) from 2014, and it's been floating around the internet since 2017.

    Meantime, observations at 4 different locations around Ireland show no detectable increase trend in sea level rise in the 21st century.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,708 ✭✭✭Shoog


    So partial in your analysis, crop failures directly attributal to this year's climate change induced weather has been significant in Ireland and across the world. Food security is at its most critical point for decades as a consequence of climate change induced extreme weather events.

    What is this global greening you allude to, the idea that co2 levels cause more plant growth? What about the land abandonment caused by climate induced desertification.

    I really can't take your analysis seriously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Desertification can be reversed using holistic land management and animal mob grazing. Familiarise yourself with Allan Savory.

    We can, but we won't. We'll faff around spending trillions for little to no benefit. Massive countries are doing the polar opposite to others negating any positive changes. If we want to stop the drivers, we stop fossil fuels immediately. We stop travel, we stop industry, we stop energy generation except if its windy. We stop making concrete. We stop all mining, etc



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Good news for anyone wanting to update their septic tank

    Downside is prices will rise in line with the increased grants



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