Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Comparing apples to oranges and they think they've proved a point or refuted yours, mental gymnastic gold medalists - thing is I think they're actually being genuine!

I agree, we lived in an apartment on the outskirts of London, lovely communal area, but anyone who thinks it is absurd for young families to prefer a house with a garden to an apartment as a family home really has no insight into the drawbacks of apartment living, especially with young kids.

It is considerably more disingenuous to claim ignorance of the differences which exist between apartment living and house living for families with young kids and to point to the absurdity of parents wanting a house.

Property prices in urban zones falling, report finds

double digit price drops in Dublin 17, 3 and 2 postcodes as well as Sligo town...is this the start of it?

I'd put money down on those Dublin postcodes having a very small number of sales

Given a small enough sample (for all we know there may have been only a dozen completions) such deltas are well within expectation. Anyway I am an engineer not a statistician :)

Fully agree about the dishonest narrative.

Who claimed ignorance?

The original argument was that there is no demand for 3 bed apartments and everyone wants a 3bed semi instead - totally ignorant of the fact that you can fit more 3 bed apts per site than semiDs for starters, and in the areas most of these apartment schemes are going up, a semiD would cost same or more due to limited supply versus many multiple apartments.

What is the alternative? That all these high density sites close to city are exclusively 1 and 2 bed apartments for tech workers or students to rent and families are stuck outside the city? Great way to hollow out the city center even more

Taking the smallest possible sample size, you could have:

1 Sale of a 5 bed house in October 2022 for 1 million

1 Sale of a 4 bed house in October 2023 for 800k

That's a 20% reduction in average house price.

It only lists median price for each area, which would presumably include all unit sizes.

So a pointless analysis, effectivley.

In the example you gave, house prices have stabilised.

But they would be reported as down 20%, as you say.

Couldnt be more misleading if they tried. :)

I understand what you are saying but don't fully agree with this. Financial crises happen periodically, and companies go bust, it is inevitable and it will happen at some point again. But there's a lot more control of the banks and also how much the banks are lending which was the main issue back in 2008. With current regulations, it seems to me it would be hard for banks to go belly up. Even if there was a bad economic meltdown, for the sake of discussion, would it affect the property market as bad as you think? I personally don't think so. Simply the current offer-demand balance (or should I say, imbalance) in Ireland won't allow it. I am of the opinion, as many people, that properties in Ireland are not worth what they are asking for and that perhaps a correction would not be so bad and bring down property prices (they are after all, ridiculously high). Back in 2008, money lending criteria was completely different than it is now. There is a lot more control. They only thing that has changed is they've allowed people to borrow 4x as much now which, I think is a mistake, but probably was done to counter the rising interest rates which perhaps may have some effect in the short term.

Sure, there are international problems in other countries which are fueling inflation and prices in general, however, I don't believe they will determine property market outcomes at a global scale.

You mentioned the current situation in the UK. The UK shot themselves in the foot recently with Brexit, yes. Either way, their economic and industrial power is greater than you think. They're in a tough position at the moment but I think they will bounce back, like they always have.

The only way I would see Ireland´s economy in jeoppardy would be if the major tech, IT and financial companies decided to pack up and leave, which is highly unlikely.

Perhaps I'm being too optimistic? I just feel people have been saying what you are saying ´´this is the beginning...´´for such a long time that, yes, it will happen at some point but every year can't be ´´doomsday is coming´´.

Could not agree more. I mean, I get what Dav010 is saying. Of course I would prefer my own private property and garden. But the reality of things is that in Ireland, how people used to live (independent houses, semi-D, end of terrace) is not sustainable anymore in major cities.

A garden would be great for kids to go and play safely but, keeping in mind it rains most of the year, I feel kids are indoors anyway. Plus, communal gardens doesn't mean it's not safe.

You missed my point, and I’ve experienced apartment living with kids, in a major European city.

My point was that for many parents with young children, a house with a garden, even a small one, would be preferable to an apartment, hence why there will always be high demand, and prices, for developments of houses.

There aren’t many “unoccupied apartment blocks”

all these bTR schemes around Sandyford, stillorgan, cherrywood are fully occupied. Event capital dock tower is well lit up at night.

Our perception of build cost is clouded by our completely dysfunctional system.

We had a discussion recently about the price of new 2 bed apts in Belfast for sale @ 130k, I believe

Are our construction salaries 3 to 4 times greater than NI

Most of our development land changed hands at fire sale prices circa 2012 to 2015.

It is incompetence, greed, cronyism, pandering to vested interests that has build costs where they are

There is no excuse for the build cost of an apartment to be more than twice the price in Limerick compared to Belfast if housing was the number 1 priority of the state.