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DF Commission Report

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    #632
    mupper2
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭mupper2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309154#Comment_121309154

    Oh you can't over burden them with too much hol...work....



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    #633
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Following on from sparkys post theres mention in the sun today about the plan but no details.

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/11580171/ireland-defence-forces-plan-next-week-micheal-martin/




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    #634
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121313794#Comment_121313794

    They won't be leaking bits of this, they want to land all the info in one go to hide the omissions.

    NINE MONTHS OVERDUE!

    It better be good, or they'll be dealing with a much bigger problem.



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    #635
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121313938#Comment_121313938

    Probably not leaking it because they are still typing it up and adding in bits



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    #636
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Ah good, the DOD is to get an implementation management office to oversee the plan. Any bets on that being the only part of this that gets fully funded?



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    #637
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314166#Comment_121314166

    See post #627



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    #638
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121314004#Comment_121314004

    Adding bits? More likely having DOD, DPER and Finance each pulling as much of it out as possible or at the very least trying to push any spending well into the future/never.



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    #639
    mupper2
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭mupper2


    The extremely frustrating thing is we can all see how more chaotic and dangerous the World is getting and will continue to get worse....but no these lads continue to think its 2000 and the good times will never stop.



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    #640
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121316007#Comment_121316007

    Hell, even then they missed 9/11 and everything that followed, I’m sure they figure the current situation is just minor. After all it would be a shame to break tradition, Dev and the Cabinet only figured out there were some “concerning tensions” in Europe in the Spring of 1939…



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    #641
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121316007#Comment_121316007

    That's exactly where they are stuck because they still haven't completed some of the objectives of the 2000 white paper.



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    #642
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121317033#Comment_121317033

    Look the person with the keys for the locked filing cabinet got transferred to Finance so the Department doesn’t even know what the 2000 WP said…



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    #643
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    This Plan is going to be interesting considering the messing in AGS at the moment. Closing date for the No.2 job has being extended again but no AGS have applied because of the money issue. Dept of Fianance have said they are reviewing issue but review wont be complete untill summer 24!

    Urgency is lost on this state no wonder the plan is nearly a year late

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1104/1414563-deputy-garda-commissioner/




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    #644
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Ann Marie has to hang on till December, apparently.



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    #645
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121325010#Comment_121325010

    She was supposed to be out the door in early December but they have got her to stay until March. Callans Kicks had a funny take on it last night



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    #646
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Callan and funny in the same sentence? A mistake surely?



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    #647
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    So Taking Bets how sh@t will the plan be this week?



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    #648
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329378#Comment_121329378

    Sell everything to make the Greens, SF and the crazy Left happy… Call it world beating.



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    #649
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    I don't know if we'll see it this week TBH. If we do it will be buried under some other bad news.

    Facts are though the government committed to LOA2 in July 2022, and this should be the roadmap detailing how they'll get there by 2028. There will be no surprises, no gifts just the following.

    Manpower, how to expand to the necessary numbers, changes at DFHQ, ie CHOD etc.

    Army:

    New Armour (Mowags are in the 2nd half of their life now and will be obsolete by the 2030s, LTAVs were **** as soon as they arrived, urgent replacement necessary). Stanag Level 4 etc. Expect armour to be a mix of Cavalry, Infantry and even Artillery vehicles, as well as engineer & armoured ambulance types. Armour at home too, and not just for training. CODF made an observation that the majority of our armoured fleet is deployed overseas. If another mission popped up closer to home, we have nothing to offer in terms of "surge" capacity.

    More trucks, a lot more. For similar reasons. Each unit should have its own transport, and not rely on a pooled fleet borrowed from other units such as Brigade transport.

    GBAD upgrade. Integrated into the recognised air picture.

    Navy:

    More overseas missions such as EUFOR Med.

    MRV

    National coastal radar

    Double crewing once we get the numbers

    P50 replacement plan with view of Mine countermeasure capability (both P50s just out of refit, and laid up, ripe for sale to someone who needs OPVs).

    East coast base for IPVs

    Air:

    Recognised Air Picture.

    Involvement in European strategic airlift. SAC was mentioned. Our own strategic reach aircraft also required that would also provide Cargo and MATS

    2 additional helis (keeping in mind AW139 approaching end of life within the timeline.

    RPAS with academic involvement in development of same.

    An Air Corps reserve.

    Cyber:

    This has begun already with Richard Browne of Ireland's cyber security unit giving a long interview in the Examiner this morning. Expect more DF involvement here, particularly with reserve units.

    In conclusion, I wouldn't be surprised to see a plan to re-evaluate our overseas footprint. The value of the commitment to long term missions such as UNIFIL for example has long been questioned, in favour of more short term missions with a clear mandate, such as Op Sophia, EUFOR Tchad etc.

    There will be no plans for fighter jets. There may be tracked AFVs, but no tanks. Ask about them again in 2028.



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    #650
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331101#Comment_121331101

    Would we as a state not be better off at this time forget about the MRV and do what ever it takes to get the P50s back in the water to get the fleet back up. Even consider opening up a naval base in Donegal as talked about before to encourage recruitment as Dongeal seems to be the only County in this island not struggling with Defence Forces Numbers.



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    #651
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Well Martin is in China this week, so I doubt it’s going to be presented to Cabinet this week anyway?



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    #652
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332837#Comment_121332837

    No.

    That would generate the ever decreasing circle that has blighted the rest of the DF for years. When you cut the organisation to suit the strength, the organisation contracts more.

    If anything we need the MRV more than we need the P50s at present, if we want to retain key staff. Nobody joins the NS to spend their career doing fishery protection. More EUFOR Med type missions are key. The MRV can provide a useful platform for this type of mission, and all talk is govt are about ready to push the button on it, finally.



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    #653
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332852#Comment_121332852

    He doesn't need to be there. Taoiseach and environment minister announced CoDF decision. Probably not though.



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    #654
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333251#Comment_121333251

    I agree he doesn’t need to be there but given the lack of urgency the department, minister, cabinet has dedicated to the DF I can’t see the rest being overly concerned about getting it down quickly, and Martin might be looking for another bit of PR on the day it’s announced, there would be at least a pn interview on the 6 o’clock, maybe even a slot on Primetime opposite PBP (or someone) screaming about “NEUTRALITY!”



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    #655
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333349#Comment_121333349

    Sure we have a Minister for State at Defence as well, Oh that's right he has zero powers on defence allocated to him



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    #656
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Well looks like nothing defence related has come before the Cabinet today, no rush I suppose.



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    #657
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Its already 8 months overdue. What difference will another week or 2 make...



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    #658
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337304#Comment_121337304

    Its a good thing all these international issues sort themselves out with no repercussions on us.



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    #659
    Dohvolle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337398#Comment_121337398

    I'm sure if there were some sort of international conflict going on, either near the EU borders, or where our troops serve with the UN, there might be some urgency here.

    Thankfully that's not the case.



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    #660
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It's not even like if there was some emergency close to home where are SOF unit had to be deployed by helicopter and 7 of the 8 helicopters were out of commission and they had to take a HEMS dedicated helicopter to stuff as many operators in to the back of it to deploy them .

    Something like that could never happen



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    #661
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337659#Comment_121337659

    Hey, we just got told last night that small nations can't make a difference so shouldn't spend on defence, and its not like that MEP has any other agenda right? Sure everything will be grand even if something did happen. And sure didn't the minister himself tell us to stop complaining about no new equipment being bought, or a failure to even fund LoA2...



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