Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

What's your definition of catching up. 11% inflation is less than what's been quoted for the republic for the same period

The greatest crash this economy experienced was from a government pumping property prices.

Stable affordable housing heavily compliments FDI and attracts more.

Homeowners and renters are protected from boom bust policies. This means that the vast majority benefit while land hoarders and developers are not allowed to hold the economy to ransom and can instead participate in a strong economy without 1 sector capturing all the majority of benifits for themselves

That again is many peoples perception?

Would SF be dumb enough to kill the golden goose?

If the state went on a building program, what would private developers do in response?

Suddenly there would be competition providing supply that have there own land, increased supply may be dis inflationary to existing land (most of it purchased at fire sale prices)

Would developers sit on there hands or perhaps accelerate delivery to get units out and sold before the state thereby offsetting any potential devaluation of their land banks. A second source of supply could lead to a supply surge

Well SF seem adamant about increasing income tax in the >140k bracket.

That would be a sure fire way to take shots at the golden goose, hopefully without killing it altogether!

It would be great to see the state provide their own housing builds at scale, but do they have the staff? I dont know.

And if they do have the staff, what have they been doing for the past 10 years...

Almost all of the new homes are coming from private developers.

I read that Dun Laoghaire CC built 2 homes in the whole of 2022.

It looks like the target of 30k homes for 2023 will be reached or slightly exceeded and with a slowdown in commercial construction in 2024, we should be able to accelerate residential projects and hopefully hit 35k new homes next year.

If the local councils could start to play their part and deliver homes also, happy days.

But if they are able, I would be imterested to know whats been stopping them building for the previous decade or so.

Apartments should be cheaper, I agree.

But families are always going to prefer own door houses with a garden.

We dont live in a climate where people spend all their time outdoors, in the way families in Spain or Portugal often do.

Ireland is still very under populated outside of Dublin.

There is plenty of space to build, but we need to make the other cities and towns more attractive to people.

Better investment, more jobs etc.

Should we encourage families to live in apartments, absolutley.

But is it going to solve all our accomodation woes and result in a sea change of families choosing apartments over houses?

Not a chance.

Housing capacity is a problem that requires a multipronged approach, there is no single silver bullet.

Anyone who actually earns north of €140k is probably already using every tax dodge in the book. The real golden goose is corporation tax rather than income tax.

At the end of the day SF's "solutions" may be deluded, but FF/FG who have been in a position to fix problems have shown a clear unwillingness to do so. Meanwhile back on topic as there are enough SF-related threads elsewhere..

Yes, sorry a little of topic.

I agree Corporation tax is the real golden goose, but we only have the Corporation tax if we have the jobs here in the first place.

I'd be wary of an exodus of tech or finance employees leaving for London, Lisbon etc because they are suddenly hammered by the tax man. The longer term impact would then be less investment in Dublin, because nobody wants to live there, because they get taxed too much.

The companies then move their hubs outside of ireland because they cant attract the talent and the Corpo tax goes with them.

We have to keep the employees happy-ish, in order to retain the jobs and the tax revenues.

Parellel but still linked. They would still likely retain some physical presence, in order to continue to book profits here.

Exactly. You were one of those folks that left because it just didnt make financial sense to stay, as the amount you received after tax and rent probably seemed way out of kilter with what you would get in the UK.

SF are proposing to increase that tax burden for higher earners even further. Those earners are generally more mobile and can up sticks, just as you did.

I am still of the opinion that SF wont make it into govt anyway, as FFG will close ranks on them again.

That said, time will tell and I guess a SF/FF coalition isn't out of the question.

Very understandable.

Hopefully things will improve & our housing output can rise to meet demand.

Funny you mentioned Portugal. With my job i was closely involved in work for a large insurance company in Ireland and I still go out for pints with the staff of that company. That company merged/took over/were taken over by (its complicated) a similar company in Portugal. Made all the staff here redundant because the cost of the ones working for the Portuguese company was far less than the cost of the guys working in Ireland.

A couple of the guys who got made redundant in Dublin ended up working for a multi national in Ireland. When their new company found out they knew all the staff in Porutgal and what they were getting paid by now, they were set to the task of poaching all the people in old companys Portugal office, since they had identified a bunch of employees who were on a relatively low wage with skills needed in ireland. Last I heard they had convinced 50% of them to come to Ireland and are fairly confident that more will take up the offer. Rented apartments for them too in Ireland. And even new employees in Portugal are being told by current staff there who havent taken up offers to contact the guys in Ireland if they fancy a higher paying job, accommodation and sh1t weather.

These guys who got made redundant after that takeover all thought that it was the end of the world. In the end they got higher paying jobs, got redundancy pay, and got bonuses for finding a load of new staff for their new company.

Its funny how it all works out. The labour market is more complicated than I thought.

I'm not sure Portugal is that cheap for hiring anymore. Lisbon has gotten expensive, not Dublin expensive obviously. And I'm pretty sure employers have to pay pretty high tax / insurance for each employee.

But that is simply a false statement as 54% of the market isn't getting assistance. It is 54% of the households renting are on some form of state assistance. They are very different statements and that means one person on unemployment assistance/benefit in a household of 5 would would be in the 54%. The state is not paying 54% of the rent in the country which was implied if not the outright claim which is false

Over 20,000 eviction notices issued in the last 5 quarters.

Out of control!

It is per household no matter what you want to call it. If it is only 10% of the 54% it certainly isn't the state paying the majority of rent is paid by the state which is the original claim. Making the claim that the state pays the majority of the rent in Ireland is just simply not true. You want to be misleading and make it out the situation is a lot worse than it actually is. It also includes people who pay very low rent to local councils.

I'll let u point out where I made such a claim