BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

p_haugh · 05-11-2023 12:50am

Thankfully I live within 15 minutes walk of UCD so can get the 39a (or 46n to the top of my road if it's the weekend), but I'll gladly take the e-spine whenever that launches!

Wonder what will happen with the 46n once the e-spine goes 24 hours. The route it takes from Cabinteely to Dundrum via The Gallops and Balinteer would need to be covered off somehow!

john boye · 05-11-2023 10:03am

Speaking of 24 hour routes, which F-spine route/s would be likely to go 24 hour if that's the plan and driver numbers allow it?

Daith · 05-11-2023 10:31am

Was thinking about that. I suspect it'll be a F1 but that leaves out a fair chunk of Finglas. If a slightly altered route went up Wellmount Road and then right on Mellows Road, it could serve a lot more areas.

LXFlyer · 05-11-2023 10:38am

When it comes to the remaining spines, I suspect that you'll see something similar to the C-Spine happen - some daytime routes will be full 24 hour services, and there will also be some route combinations to serve more areas overnight.

Daith · 05-11-2023 10:52am

Ah, yes be good to see some combination route there. The N4 does cover some of that route in Finglas too.

LXFlyer · 05-11-2023 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327097#Comment_121327097

In the case of the F-Spine, I suspect that the F1 will be a 24-hour route, and then there would be an additional night-time only F4, being a combined F2 & F3 operating from Rossmore via Limekiln & Walkinstown to Charlestown via Finglas South, West & North. That offers the ability to deliver a bus every 30 minutes through the night on the core part of the F-Spine while still delivering a service every hour to the unique sections and only missing relatively short sections.

LXFlyer · 05-11-2023 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326484#Comment_121326484

Just as an FYI if going to Rathcoole and are stuck again on a Friday or Saturday night, you could take the GoAhead route 126N also from Connolly at 03:20, picking up at the Ha'penny Bridge en route. It sets down on the N7 at An Poitín Stil.

LXFlyer · 05-11-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121323769#Comment_121323769

As others have pointed out, what you have is an oversubscribed service that will at some point need more buses, but there are large swathes of the city with no regular night time bus other than Nitelink.

The people in those areas are no less deserving of one than you are. Everyone of them have to pay taxi fares each night, rather than a proportion along the 41 route.

Sure the service will need to increase, but saying that you are more deserving of an even higher frequency than people who have no service at all is daft.

LXFlyer · 05-11-2023 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121317449#Comment_121317449

I think that the O/N2 would have to be in place at the same time or before the E Spine happens - otherwise you'd have no service along the NCR.

Jamie2k9 · 05-11-2023 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327243#Comment_121327243

Yes daft to think a core airport route deserves an adequate 24 hour service. No guarantee people traveling to the airport can actually use the service!

Again 4 years and not a single extra service. It is not unreasonable to expect current services to be improved before expanding.

LXFlyer · 05-11-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327273#Comment_121327273

Again though, what about people living elsewhere in Dublin who have no service, and have no option but to pay taxi fares all of the time?

Are they second class citizens?

Clearly in your opinion they are, but I'd find it difficult to believe that the majority of people would agree with your view.

Aircoach do operate their 700 service at night as well and the Dublin Express 782 starts at 03:35 from Heuston - it's not as if there are no other options to get to the Airport. Yet most of us have no bus at night at all.

I'm sorry, but while the corridor needs more buses, most corridors don't have any night time service at all and I don't think that it is unreasonable to see them as the priority.

bikeman1 · 05-11-2023 12:06pm

I’m a regular user of the 41 all times of the day. BÁC have been putting on specials (particularly at weekends) when you have the folks coming home from town (working and partying) plus the early AM departures from DUB.

These tend to run about 10 minutes ahead of the scheduled departure.

The problem is they are not scheduled and often don’t show up anywhere on real-time and people think it is the scheduled service running early. I’ve seen panic on people running to the stop when it’s on the relief.

I’ve also been left behind at Abbey St. and thankfully a relief came around. Others everyone at every stop to the Airport was going to be left behind.

Ive seen poor Ryanair crew crying at Whitehall that they couldn’t get on. Tourists in shock at the scrum in Abbey St. Buses completely overloaded. Buses refusing to depart awaiting the Gardaí. Me and another guy had to force people off the bus to get us on the way after the driver told them not to board.

They need to schedule them at least every 20 minutes. The only good thing is, I’ve never seen one cancelled, so they do prioritise those services for obvious reasons.

Jamie2k9 · 05-11-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327288#Comment_121327288

If you cannot manage your existing 24 hour operation to meet demand then you fix this before expanding.

No where did I suggest they are second class but like anything they are priorities and the 41 was picked because of the airport.

LXFlyer · 05-11-2023 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327313#Comment_121327313

Well your posts certainly come across that way.

You make zero allowance for the large numbers of people across the city who have no choice but to pay for taxis elsewhere across the city on a nightly basis.

People going to the airport have at least two other public transport options at night apart from the 41.

Jamie2k9 · 05-11-2023 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327331#Comment_121327331

its not about making allowances for other areas. Winners and Losers for everything because unless every route becomes 24 hours people will lose out. Hence core routes are picked.

So if you were in charge when would you increase capacity on the 41?

The other airport options are not great for many staff along the route.

LXFlyer · 05-11-2023 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327368#Comment_121327368

Yes and that will be done by rolling out the new Spines as planned.

I have sympathy with people not always being to able to board the service, but I have a greater sympathy with the far greater number of people across the city who have no option but to pay out for taxi fares every night.

For example, no part of Tallaght has a 24 hour service. How are they less important?

That’s what you are effectively saying if I’m honest about it.

If 4 drivers were available to increase the frequency to every 15 mins then fine, but it should not be at the expense at the rollout of other services. That’s the element of your posts that I have an objection to, as you’re effectively making one area more important than others.

loco_scolo · 05-11-2023 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327301#Comment_121327301

What time of night does this happen?

I regularly take the 41 from Drumcondra Rail Station (around 5am) for a 7am flight and I've never had issues getting on and never see anti social behaviour. The bus is always busy, but always room to take on passengers for the whole route.

Is it just the 3/4am buses which have people coming home from clubs and people taking 6/630am flights?

bikeman1 · 05-11-2023 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327420#Comment_121327420

Yes, from 01:00 to 04:30 is the peak time for the 41 at the weekend. 05:00 onward is late morning for that route!!

During the “summer” timetable at the airport there are now a huge number of flights departing before 06:30 requiring people to be on the 03:00 bus while clashing with the people coming home. There’s also all the airport workers. They start around 03:00 to serve us coffee, load the planes get us through security. There is a phenomenal number of people going that way in the middle of the night. An 80 seater bus is not sufficient.

loco_scolo · 05-11-2023 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327434#Comment_121327434

A bus every 15 minutes between 2am and 4am would require 4 additional runs. It's not a lot and would probably solve most of the issues. I'm just speculating, but even the anti social behaviour would likely disappear.

When people have to wait up to 30minutes for a bus, it just leads to frustration and friction as more and more people arrive, hoping to get on. It's a main route to the airport, it deserves more investment. People going to work at 3/4am in the airport shouldn't have to pay for taxis or lose out to people coming home from a club.

bikeman1 · 05-11-2023 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327457#Comment_121327457

Exactly.

What would solve the issue would be a 41 to the airport only. It would then return empty to the city centre and loop around like that. 35 minutes to the airport, back in in 20 minutes and around. Two buses on a 5 hour workout would solve the issue. Also not needed Monday (Sunday night) to Thursday (Wednesday night).

john boye · 05-11-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327168#Comment_121327168

Yes I did wonder if a combination of the F2/3 might be the solution on the southern end. I don't know enough about the northern end to guess what they'll do there.

Will be interesting to see which depot/s work the F spine too.

thomasj · 05-11-2023 1:39pm

The 39a usually does a 15 minutes frequency at the core overnight hours at the weekend .

You'd have the usual 30 minute frequency towards ongar/ucd and then you'd have the extra running aston quay to ongar. Most of this would be possible through the surplus 39n drivers doing the aston quay -ongar leg

lordleitrim · 05-11-2023 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327603#Comment_121327603

Yes...I've also frequently seen in the last year, extra 39A buses turn up 10 or 15 minutes before or after the scheduled time and buses are now maybe 85/90% but never 100% full even as far as Essex Quay/ Wood Quay stop whereas a year a go, the same night time 39As were passing us by full on the Fri or Sat nights we were out so the 39A has improved to handle the demand it attracts. You have to give kudos to DB for meeting this demand. Its almost got to the stage I don't time the night 39A anymore and just turn up as you'll only have to wait 10/15 min max.

I appreciate as a passenger that those of us along the 39A route are privileged in this regard. I save at least €1000 a year on taxis as a result.

thomasj · 05-11-2023 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327434#Comment_121327434

If they were to transfer the 41 to Harristown , it would be a good route for the 20 or so triaxle buses in storage even if just for the summer .

Well if they could put extra storage space in on them that is

BlueSkyDreams · 05-11-2023 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327914#Comment_121327914

A great and honest insight!

Glad to hear DB have delivered there and responded to demand.

dublinman1990 · 05-11-2023 11:24pm

I think there is a merit in the argument with increasing investment in bus services going from the City Centre to the Airport.

Varadkar was saying to the media during the Government's trade mission in South Korea yesterday that he has a plan to lift the cap on passenger numbers going through Dublin Airport. He wants it to go over the current cap of 32 million passengers at the Airport because he had said that the state will risk losing direct airline routes to other countries like Asia, Africa and Latin America. The airlines were putting out statements that they wanted to see the current cap increased as they are currently seeing huge numbers of passengers going through the Airport.

Varadkar also noted similar sentiments for Cork, Shannon and Knock Airports as well.

The media than asked a question to Varadkar if he wanted to increase the cap at Dublin Airport to over 40 million passengers. He replied that he doesn't know what figure he wants at the moment because he hadn't decided on it yet. There were official figures released saying that there were 25 million passengers were going through Dublin Airport during the 1st nine months of this year.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/uknews/leo-varadkar-wants-to-lift-32-million-passenger-cap-on-dublin-airport/ar-AA1jpbpK?cvid=a4163b54d5d143e9e94121d3a685b892&ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&ei=6

If the state do want to increase the number of flights at Dublin Airport say within the next year or two; there has to be corresponding increase in the number of bus services somewhere down the line in order to allow them to try and meet that demand in the near future. A proposed feeder service for the 41 from Abbey St to the Airport only with other bus services getting much needed increases in frequency to do same would be very welcome.

That along with the Metrolink coming in to add to the buses to try and support that increase in demand would put Dublin Airport at a stable footing.

Pete_Cavan · 06-11-2023 6:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330145#Comment_121330145

Varadkar doesn't get to decide on the passenger cap for Dublin Airport.

bk · 06-11-2023 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330589#Comment_121330589

If you are talking about Fingal County Council are the ones who set the cap, I strongly suspect that the government are planning to change the law to take that power away from the local councils and give it to ABP or some other national body like that.

Think how Railway orders skip local planning and go straight to ABP.

It is mad that the countries single most important and strategic piece of national infrastructure is limited by a local planning authority with zero expertise in aviation or national priorities. Totally mickey mouse stuff.

bk · 06-11-2023 4:06pm

As for the argument if resources should be put into the 41 or rolling out other 24/7 routes first, unfortunately this all stems from the NTA (along with DB, etc.) trying to roll out in just a few years what should have been gradually rolled out over the past 60 years!

It is pretty mad that a European Capital City doesn't have 24/7 bus routes on all major corridors in the year 2023!

We should have had such routes since at least the 80's and we should just be looking at adding some capacity to them now.

As for the idea of a 41x that goes straight to the airport, it is a great idea, but won't happen. It would fall afoul of replicating Aircoach or Dublin Express routes. We already saw problems with the 41 using the port tunnel due to Swords Express.

Perhaps they could get away with some sort of limit stop service.

Basically if you want to get to the airport late at night take Aircoach/DX, yes more expensive, but basically this is what they are here for.

Another idea would be if they made the 16 24/7, it would help take some of the strain off the 41, while still rolling out a new 24/7 route. Best of both worlds?

BTW my secret dream service (prior to Metrolink), which will likely never happen for various reasons is single decker BRT (articulated buses) operating through the port tunnel and straight up to the airport.

Bec123 · 06-11-2023 5:25pm

Have we had any confirmation of when the next Phase is being launched and what routes will be included? Think I read before that the end of November was mentioned?

I'm most curious if the 71 route will be included as part of the next phase as it will be much better than the lesser spotted 56a that we have at the moment.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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