A Woke Society? **Mod Warning In Post #435**

You have no idea what "woke" is if you think it's group identity.

People are tribal - it's an inherant human trait - so we're going to find identity in groups, that's nothing new. Being part of a religion is a group identity. Expressing yourself by way of waving an irish flag is having a group identity. Supporting Manchester United or Liverpool or whoever is having a group identtiy. Joining a model railway club is a group identity. Hell, joining the Nationalist Socialist Party in Germany in the 1930s was having a group identity - but I'd hardly call it "woke"; would you?

Disney is a major reason as to why Ron DeSantis is no longer a potential candidate for US president, but that's not really relevant to anything. Neither is Disney's profit/loss margin, number of subscribers or anything like that relevant because correlation does not mean causation.

but they arent reasonable suggestions to what I wrote, though identifying as an Irish soccer supporter is probably like having a disability he he!

its more related to philosophies and value systems around immutable characteristics, for instance Race. so for instance if you take a Black woman, a woke person/philosophy would say she is oppressed yada yada , white men are somehow her problem and capitalism yada yada. A normal person would argue that your personal characteristics and thoughts of which Race is just one of hundreds defines your range of opportunities.

I feel like Im responding to a chimp or someone who has lived under a rock for the past 10 year, you do know this already? or is this brand new information?

That doesn't really change your definition because what constitutes "given preference" is massively speculative. I could argue the Nazis were given preference on the basis that they were led by a dictator. The Catholic Church, up until 1972, was a group identity that had preference in the Constitution - pretty sure I woudn't call the Christian Brothers of the 60s "woke".

Woke is nothing to do with group identity or preference. It's a perceived notion of awareness of social injustice - and you most certainly don't need to have a "group identity" regardless of whether or not you think it receives a special preference.

I'll ignore the paragraph where you said "race" was a philosophy or value system.

Beyond that, if you have to resort to childish insults, it's because you know what you're saying has been proven wrong.

in the common meaning of the term and how it describes what we see , it is group identity. there is no general interest in poverty which affects all races , disabilities , its all race, sex, gender issues. there are a 100 discussions over genders access to toilets compared to disability access to public transport for example. I apologise if I come across as being rude but I dont quite believe that posters are being genuine with their questions. If the topic was communism and was incessantly being bogged down with requirements for definitions of communism, I'd just view it filibustering, but as you have moved it on Ill go with that

The most anti woke posters on boards are opposed to everything from refugees to combatting climate change to benefits of any kind for the poor or disabled. They even oppose sex education. Meanwhile they will treat the likes of a black Little Mermaid or female ghostbusters or transgender influencers as the end of the world.

Fyi, at this stage I'm comfortable in saying I have a disability and I don't view any of the so called woke issues to be a problem, it's not an either or scenario. And to be frank, the so called woke crowd tend to care far more about the above issues than the people imploding over them. To use an example, the LGBT community were involved throughout the campaigning and canvassing for Repeal. I know plenty that do canvassing for disability rights, poverty issues etc. Although based on my reading, you'd classify even basic accessibility issues as identity politics.

From personal experience my mother is a totally selfish personality and she is almost totally lacking in any type of empathy.

She seems typical of a certain type of person.

A Cis-woman, you bigot!! 🤣🤣🤣

Then I'd argue you are directly involved. I have trans friends also, but I wouldn't assume to know what they're going through or try to speak for them (at least, not without checking first).

I have a black friend, for example, who rolls his eyes every time he hears a white person try and tell another white person to use the phrase "person of colour". Not every black person prefers this term.

a convenient definition you have, but you are right to point out that wokism is a form of fascism because it is based on in groups and out groups, in the gender area why is there rhetoric about destroying heteronormativity ? all framed in an in group/out group way. or Race "white privilege" in group/out group. Woke isnt inclusive, its decisive with the aim of, from their point of view margenalising the perceived in group as they they see it.

At an individual level any basic psychology would tell an individual not to blame other people for their problems yet woke is a set of beliefs that push exactly that message. So adopting woke attitudes is its own punishment which I find amusing, there is a certain schadenfreude to it.

Convenient allies and all that, now LGBTs are turning their backs on women who have the strange notion that biology matters in terms of what a woman is, even gays are subject to abuse from their own for expressing sexual preference. You would have to have your head pretty deep in the sand to suggest woke isnt causing problems. You only have to look at the US to see that promoting victim narratives based on race is literally killing people.

If you cannot see that some societal groups are systematically disadvantaged by their status, then you will never understand social progressives.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that if you agree with social discrimination against a group based upon their identity - some day that person been unfairly descriminated again will be you or your children. No one chooses to be born gay, transexual or coloured and it could be your son or daughter, niece or nephew. Surely you would hate to see your own children treated unequally for something they had no control over?

My point is that people are individuals so individuals should primarily live their lives on that basis. If somebody believes that they are systematically discriminated, then you create an artificial ceiling in their lives plus giving them a grievance mentality. Take a neutral issue like a physical disability which does actually limit people, Ive never picked up that people with disabilities resent people without them but in the woke era, it is based on resenting groups.

The race one is a good example, that if you keep telling Black people that they are being discriminated against they are likely to under perform in life and create a self fulfilling prophesy for themselves. The classic Asian kids trope (but true in many cases)is that they get told early on to work hard, go to college and get a good job to earn money so that is exactly what they do. In the US Asians out perform everyone, same as white kids, they dont get told they will be discriminated against because they are white. The last thing you want to do is promote values based on immutable characteristics

I dont understand how Nazis or Catholics prove anything, being catholic isnt based on an immutable characteristic , as for nazis, that raises a good point because they thought along the same lines as wokies do, its an In group/out group grievance ideology based on the immutable characteristic of race.

Very little outside the fevered right wing shoutsphere.

It cannot be denied that white people hold massive privilege in America and it is a legitimate area for discussion.

if you view people as groups, to pick an extreme example, a white man with Downs syndrome has massive privilege?, I hope such a fellow is given some sensitivity training so that he acknowledges his privilege. A better way has to be looking at poverty, that affects all races but I guess it suits the establishment to see it your way, diverts attention and keeps people from uniting, 4D chess if you will

If you are born white then you can be poor, if you are born black you are almost guaranteed to be poor. What causes that ?

things can morph into other things and movements and ideas can go to far, we are in the "too far" stage. If you agreed with that , we would be on the same page.