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The trial of Molly Martens

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  • Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭CrazyEric


    What happened to the evidence of her having drugged him before he was beaten to death? I remember it from the original trial but heard no mention of it since.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I agree this is indeed a possibility and not at all a conspiracy theory.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Tbh i'm becoming more and more disgusted by this charade of a sentencing hearing, where in return for the plea deal the prosecution has agreed to only present 10% of the original evidence. This is an organised sham to allow two American citizens to walk away from the cold blooded killing of an Irish one.

    Watching the news there it seems the American justice system thinks it's fine to rubbish the Irish one, namely allowing directly disputing the cause of death of Jason's first wife, solely from reading autopsy reports. I'm shocked that our politicians are silent on this.

    The only succour from this planned whitewash from the prosecutors involved is that MM will suffer the life sentence of never seeing those kids again.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    It never was- some people joined this thread thinking they had found “new information” and had aligned themselves with the now farcical sentencing hearing defence that pleaded that Molly was more sinned against than sinning - how they could have thought that considering she bashed her husbands brains out with a brick and a bat is anyone’s guess but hey ho, it takes all sorts



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    The angle of well Jason wasn't a saint has sickening echoes of the police defence when they kill someone that wasnt a threat to them "but look at their record! A shoplifter!".



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,452 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Tom did work in the FBI.

    Its seems the prosecution has caved in altogether. They oy thing they have offered is Molly is a liar and that Molly was infatuated with getting the kids. I mean all the arguments could have stemmed from her constantly nagging Jason about it. Not only that she got her brother and father to nag him too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Unless the prosecution have finished it could lead up to discrediting her claim that she felt under threat or acted in self defense in any way but was pre planned, motivated by her obsession with getting the children and fear that Jason would go back to Ireland with them, especially if all was not well in their marriage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,099 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Staring January 1, 2021, a new law gave stepparents the ability to petition the court to become a legal guardian for their stepchildren.

    This happened in 2015.

    Anyway she did try for guardianship, it was denied and then denied at appeal.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    I'm actually shocked reading the rte reporting, especially these doctors, it's like something out of the Simpsons



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Minor guardianship isn't the only way mentioned in the article for a stepparent to become a guardian.

    The fact that she applied for guardianship and appealed when her initial application was unsuccessful does demonstrate that she was motivated to becoming the children's legal guardian.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,099 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    4 doctors now. 2 for the prosecution and 2 for the defence and they all agree the lackadaisical approach to the autopsy was like something out of the Simpsons.

    It's like she just asked what she died from and wrote it down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,099 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    she was motivated to becoming the children's legal guardian

    Well yeah, that's not a secret. She did co-raise them for the majority of their life it would be strange if she didn't.

    Anyway the reality of the situation is she was told by a family law attorney she had no legal rights to the children, a fact which was subsequently confirmed by the courts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Exactly. Proves she was obsessive about being their main parent and throws your digs about conspiracy about the window.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    His first wife was strangled and he's gives evidence molly was strangled with no physical evidence



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭Be right back


    What are you talking about? The majority of their lives? Are they even 20 now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭Be right back


    Not sure if this has been posted already. https://www.newstalk.com/news/molly-martens-claimed-sarah-corbett-was-her-biological-child-1522050.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,099 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If she wanted to be the main parent murdering him with a brick was the one way to guarantee she wouldn't be.

    She didn't even have the legal right to sign a consent form for a doctor.

    Did she want to leave the marriage and have joint custody of the children?

    Yes.

    Did she want minor guardianship after the killing?

    Yes.

    But like she was told by a family law attorney, she had zero legal entitlement, a fact confirmed by the courts.

    Was she confused by all that and honestly thought that if she murders a father with a brick she gets to keep his children?

    Possible, but the best conspiracies always have an element of possibility in them.

    It's also possible the first wife died by "homicide".

    Neither are probably though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,099 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    co-raise them for the majority of their life

    To the point they were removed.

    Of course that is obvious.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭Be right back


    To you. And thanks to her, they have no biological parent left. Obviously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Maybe at first she just believed herself that if Jason was out of the way, she stood a good chance of being granted guardianship. So she set about putting a plan in place about 6 months before she murdered him. Visits to hospitals and doctors with fake injuries supposedly caused by Jason attacking her. Speaking with lawyers about her chances of gaining guardianship. Taping a family argument she had orchestrated to take place in front of the children, etc. etc. When it looked like it was not going to work she waited until her parents were visiting and killed him outright herself, Daddy stepped in to take the rap for his darling deranged daughter.

    We'll see what Jason's children say in their victim statement that they will now give themselves;




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    She has no legal right (i.e. it is not automatic) but she has the right to apply and as you point out she did co-raise them for the majority of their life.

    Had she gotten away with disposing of Jason, she would have been the natural choice to be the children's guardian.

    You can also petition the court for legal parental rights by proving you are a de facto parent. This requires you to file a de facto parentage action with the court and prove you lived with the child as a regular member of their household for a substantial period of time and are a consistent caretaker for the child.

    I don't know under what grounds she applied to the court but she would appear to meet the above conditions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭factnee


    You are quite right here in all of what you say if you were talking about a rational and sane person. Molly is quite obviously a lunatic however



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,226 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Looks like the outcome will be Daddy and his princess walking free while Jason is convicted of murder. The prosecution is absolutely useless here, almost as if they're working with the defence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I’m surprised that more Irish medical professionals haven’t spoken out about the comments made that the autopsy report wasn’t up to “American standards”- this trial has put the Irish autopsy process under the spotlight and I think it deserves some discussion and for the medics to reassure the Irish public that it’s in safe hands.

    As many have pointed out, there’s a back story to the death of Jason’s first wife- if improvements to autopsy reports could be made then let’s make them but not good to leave this hanging without some formal response from the medical council or whatever body oversees this area- just speaking as a citizen who knows very little of such things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    It was never going to be pleasant that’s for sure. With the hearing nearly over and the likely outcome of time served or very little additional time to add (likely suspended) , I predict that Molly will do the interview circuit - magazines and daytime talk shows- marketing herself as the “victim”- if the pre-first trial 20:20 interview is anything to go by, she’ll get an easy time if it with lots of “there there’s” - they won’t dare question the night of the killing in any great detail and she’ll become a spokesperson for marital and spousal abuse.

    I guarantee it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    One presumes at this stage that the Fitzpatrick family will be alarmed at the evidence in this sentence hearing. The conclusion from medical witnesses for both state and defence agree that cause of death of Margaret was uncertain. I think any of us in their shoes would be asking questions and looking for some clarification & answers here. This can't be easy for them at all and let's hope the authorities here can assist them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭Furze99




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  • Registered Users Posts: 55,600 ✭✭✭✭walshb




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