Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

A lot of that going around

In this case the boy wasn't counter-protesting and getting in peoples faces. A boy was just stabbed 26 times by his landlord for being a Palestinian a few weeks ago. The landlord was 2 years older than the victim-gentleman in the case you referenced (71).

Notable observation from the police reporting and the autopsy reporting you provided is that they do not confirm whether it was blunt trauma from the megaphone or blunt trauma to the back of the head from falling - which they made a point of mentioning. They don't mention a megaphone.

Several posts and initial news reports misleadingly stated he was beaten to death with a megaphone.

@Overheal - "Notable observation from the police reporting and the autopsy reporting you provided is that they do not confirm whether it was blunt trauma from the megaphone or blunt trauma to the back of the head from falling - which they made a point of mentioning."

Probably from hitting his head falling, but either way it's homicide / manslaughter

@Overheal - "A boy was just stabbed 26 times by his landlord for being a Palestinian a few weeks ago"

Brutal. Hope the killer never gets out of prison

He even looks unhinged. Wonder was there a history of mental illness

"I wot?"

You are saying you never used the word genocide or murder in this thread in relation to the killings of civilians in Gaza in this current conflict?

There's an impending ICC invetigation re Israel vs Palestine, they know very well they are going to be scrutinised at the ICC (the fact that Israel is not a signatory means nothing, "Palestinian State", EU et al are). Thinking that they are relaxed is incorrect reading of the situation - it's not in their interest to do so. There's lot of nuance that's lost on people outside of Israel (or contact with it) or who haven't been following the conflict closely. Especially, if they've decided for one side on idealogical grounds and no amount of rational arguments or evidence changes their position.

• The whole nation is united regarding going full in and detroying Hamas by military means. Left to right. Usually happens during their wars.
• There's been a lot of criticism from the opposition on specific aspects and also the government policy. Nothing new, it's been going on for a long time.

Centre:

Left:

https://archive.ph/20231106063241/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-06/ty-article/.premium/netanyahus-far-right-ministers-are-his-assets-and-for-israel-a-liability/0000018b-a119-d42c-a9ef-ad7fce690000

With regards to Western democracies and the dilemma, none of them were in a similar situation since the WW2. Even WW2 is hardly comparable to the reality of Israel. The EU hasn't been able to defend itself without the help of NATO/US protection since 1945. The EU isn't able to get rid of a very dangerous protracted war on its border which has huge implications for European stability for a long time ahead. I don't think any country in the EU, and especially "neutral" Ireland, is in a position to engage in a backseat driving re Israel. I don't say criticism is wrong, I'm saying ithe narrative is naive, hypocritical and out of context.

@Overheal

Thanks for admitting it, saving me having to go look for proof ;-)

So you: genocide, ethnic cleansing, but I don't really know what's happening really

Me: on the balance of probabilites, IDF is targeting legitimate military objects, but I don't really know if the number of civilians killed in this can be considered proportional or not

Who has the more balanced view here?

Too late for that assumption

Do you have a problem reading my post? I said it was not genocide.

Do you want balanced views or ad hominem nonsense based on bad faith interpretations of exactly what I wrote?

So you want Israel to attack Qatar which is hosting Hamas leadership first, then go after the rest of the militants after this?

Is this your point?

My apologies if I misread you. So you are not calling it murder and not calling it genocide, but you are calling it ethnic cleansing? Presumably because Gazans were advised to move from North Gaza to South Gaza as the former would be turned into a war zone? IDF simply had to do that to comply with international law, don't you agree?

Ah, so another example of Victim blaming.

"Hamas attacked Israelis because they were 'mean' to them"

Tell us all, do you use this rationale for 2 thousand years of anti-Semitic actions? From Pograms in Spain and Russia to the Holocaust? What caused all this? Were Jews being 'mean' to their neighbours? Did they have it coming to them?

If only the Jews were a bit nicer to Adolf Hitler in his formative years, they could have avoided the Holocaust. Who knew!*

*We all know that Hamas want to eradicate all Jews from Palestine and the world. How 'nice' or 'mean' the Israelis are to them is immaterial, and those who trot out this victim-blaming narrative are themselves engaging in parroting Anti-Semitic tropes that at the end of it all, the Jews had it coming to them this time around..

Lost: are Gazan kids being collectively punished for 2000 years of antisemitism?

If not what's your point? There's a lot of victim blaming being thrown at the child. Now the child has to answer for the Russians and Adolf Hitler??

History didn't begin on the 7th though we agree on that. Israel isn't a hapless victim in this, they're an architect:

The people who died on the 7th, of course, also victims, and did not similarly deserve collective punishment for what Likud did.

or that 'they've done 2 wrongs, we've done everything right'

which is fantasy

The hostages aren’t a solution, they’re an excuse. You don’t mention Palestinian hostages taken by the IDF, maybe an oversight.

So 8-year-old, Emily Hand, who is believed to be kidnapped and taken hostage by a terrorist group isn't a victim in your eyes. Pretty depraved point of view tbh.

What happened to her and her dead mother was and is a war crime yet you don't see them as victims...

Another international law expert has just turned up. The amount of trucks that has been allowed in a month is what normally get's delivered a day. Who is preventing those goods from Egypt entering ?

If Israel control what is allowed in, control the air and sea who is preventing these goods from getting to the people ?