Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Hmm, bit of an own goal.

No one is denying the many children are dying in Gaza but hard to get independant true figures. Yet, you parrot the Hamas numbers but in the same paragraphy say they its under dispute. Odd that.

As I said, kind of like Holocaust denialism, regardless of the evidence some won't want to believe it.

One this.

Because some parrot outright lies and falsehoods as if its true

E.g.

• Hamas are not anti-Semitic.
• Hamas don't use human shields.
• Anti-Semitism has nothing to do with this conflict or all Arab-Israeli conflicts going back to 1947 or further.
• Israelis who died or were taken hostage are not victims.

They wont be wiped out though. As has been pointed out, their ultimate leadership is not in Gaza and they will continue to recruit and radicalise in an environment where a generation of kids are now seeing their parents, brothers, sisters, friends etc annihilated by Israel.

An as Netanyahu or whatever ultra nationalist comes next see Fatah or whatever Palestinian leadership was to follow look like they might be getting a unified, coherent set of policies that could lead to a Palestinain state, they will then prop up New Hamas or whatever they morph into to undermine any chance of a successful Palestine. And we know this because Netanyahu has already done it before.

He was.

We have never left it. To avoid losing territory, don't initiate total war on your neighbour.

And Bibi is a bit of a c*unt..his time is numbered.

Still doesn't negate my point about the true nature of Hamas, its Anti-Semitism and that being the root of this conflict.

Doesn't matter how nice the Israelis are, Hamas will still hate the Jews and want to kill them all.

Arabic nations will not do anything, as always. They're big on rhetoric but when it comes to taking resposibility for the Palestinian cause and their fellow Arabs, no action. Also, the Islamic world is heterogenous with competing interests - non-Arab Sunni Turks, Arab Sunnis lead by the Saudis and Arab and non-Arab Shias lead by Iran, all of which want to be some sort of a regional power. They spend more time scheming against each other and opressing their own people than anything else.

The neighbouring Sunni Arabs are way past of trying to go to war with Isreal. They lost wars they initiated multiple times and signed treaties with Israel. I believe Saudi Arabia will sign a peace treaty regardless. Even if Iran tries to pull South Lebanon, Yemen and Syria into the war. Yemen can't really do anything, that's saber rattling at best. Hesbollah can cause a lot of damage but only to its own detriment. The only real danger here is Iran, but Iran plays a long game and it's unlikely it will do anything directly. One trump card could be forcing Iraq Shia militias to fight, but why would they fight for a Sunni Hamas...

Not that odd, not an "own goal" (if this is tit for tat for you please desist): it would be in bad faith of me not to acknowledge that many users on this thread dispute the numbers. It would also be failing to acknowledge the rebuttals I've asserted to that, showing that on the main, the numbers are far more reliable than those disputes wish to allege. There has been much dispute about the numbers on this thread.

Doesn't make either of those types correct. I'm not excusing denial of either.

I haven't seen anyone argue Hamas isn't antisemitic.

I haven't seen anyone argue Hamas has never used human shields. Users have also tried to offer apologia for the IDF that they treat each bomb (of the thousands they've dropped) on a quote "case by case basis." running around with a quote from 2011 or a report from 2014 isn't 'case by case basis' for verification of such use of human shields. Evidence you provided shows that the current stance of Hamas is to not put the civilian population in the tunnels -- this patently avoids them being used as human shields in those tunnels...

I don't recall where anyone said anitsemitism had nothing to do with the conflict, the point they were making iirc is that the primary instigating factor for this conflict was crimes - murdering journalists, kneecapping kids, apartheid, etc.; totally debatable -- one of the roots of the entire shebang is the Al Aqsa Mosque, the disputes over it, by definition are sectarian (and the ecumenicals are rife with phobias).

I don't recall anyone saying hostages and dead innocents were not victims, as i explained in a post above, to an example you think matched this description but which doesn't tbf.

This means that Gaza will have to be occupied by someone. Either the IDF or some international peacekeeping force and stop Hamas or whatever their cousins are from taking power. Build a society where youngsters can turn their attention to something other than Hate for their Jewish neighbours which is sadly endemic.

I asked before, what would you do?

Not since Oct 7th, in anything I can find online. Unless you’ve a source?

Of course the letter (from Edward Burke and others in to-day's Irish Times) attacks the original signatories: that was the whole point - to attack a very unbalanced letter. The rest of your post does not convince me in the least.

The UNRWA has an issue with jihadist/genocidal narratives.

What is worse is that the UNRWA school curicullum is indoctrinating Palestinians with anti-semitism.

Just a few posts ago you decried victim blaming, and declared victim-blaming was antisemitism.

So, what tropes is #17626 engaging in now? Propping up the Nazis as a good bunch of lads who built bomb shelters!