Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Options
15895905925945951266

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,559 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    That is a simply evil post given what is happening to Palestinians in Gaza.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The economic impacts of the Gaza blockade have been huge

    Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

    The World Bank estimated in 2015 that the GDP losses caused by the blockade since 2007 was above 50%, and entailed large welfare losses. Gaza's manufacturing sector, once significant, shrunk by as much as 60 percent in real terms, due to the wars in the past 20 years and the blockade. Gaza's exports virtually disappeared since the imposition of the 2007 blockade. 

    It is estimated that in November, less than 20,000 liters of fuel per week entered Gaza via the tunnels, compared to nearly 1 million liters per day until June 2013. The Gaza Power Plant (GPP), which had been supplying 30 percent of the electricity available in Gaza, has been exclusively dependent on Egyptian diesel smuggled through the tunnels, since early 2011. On 1 November, after depleting its fuel reserves, the GPP was forced to shut down, triggering power outages of up to 16 hours per day, up from 8–12 hours prior to that.

    Following the implementation of the blockade, Israel halted all exports from the Gaza Strip. Israeli human rights organization Gisha, the Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, obtained an Israeli government document which says "A country has the right to decide that it chooses not to engage in economic relations or to give economic assistance to the other party to the conflict, or that it wishes to operate using 'economic warfare'".[147] Sari Bashi, the director of Gisha, said that this showed that Israel wasn't imposing its blockade for its stated reasons of a security measure to prevent weapons from entering Gaza, but rather as collective punishment for the Palestinian population of Gaza.

    In May 2015, the World Bank reported that the Gaza economy was on the "verge of collapse". 40% of Gaza's population lived in poverty, even though around 80% received some sort of aid.

    International law regards a blockade as an act of war.[214] The blockade has been criticized by former UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC)[215] and other human rights organizations. In 2011, a panel of UN experts concluded that the naval blockade of Gaza constituted collective punishment and in doing so violated international law, contradicting a previous UN investigation that declared it was legal.

    Before the Hamas attack, they had nearly 50% unemployment.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Well, I guess once Jews knew their place, the Arabs were always going to be in the majority and supremacy. But once the migration of Jews occurred, resentment and Anti-Semitism exploded.

    You also have to look in the wider context of nationalism, Islam and the fusing of the two. The Muslim Brotherhood for example are a reactionary far-right group. Like in the rest of the world, Nationalism exploded in the Middle East after WWI and the fall of empires, but it was very much a right-wing, Islamic-based nationalism in today's sense, certainly not a liberal, diverse-based nationalism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,375 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    True to a certain extent, but you know what I am talking about.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    No.

    I am just destroying the argument that this conflict is rooted in the falsehood that it was because the Jews were mean to Palestinians.

    It goes deeper than that, and the unfortunate truth is that much of it is based on hatred for Jews.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,317 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    We are discussing ethnic cleaning in the current situation in Gaza, not elsewhere or at any time. It was IDF's obligation under international humanitarian law to advise people to move to the south of Gaza as they had intended to heavily attack the north. That's not ethnic cleansing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It was Arafart who rejected the Olso accords first and foremost, not Rabin.

    Also, are you saying that it was Bibi who killed Rabin?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,375 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Did you finish reading to the bottom of my post before responding, or are we just going to ignore what's happening now, let it ferment for the next 74 years as well, and come back to it then and say 'well... we're discussing the current situation now'

    As if it's all some big game to disacknowledge how long Israel has been at this ethnic cleanse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    My aim is at the regime that runs Gaza. Hamas.

    They need to be eradicated.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Did the Allies destroy National Socialism in 1945?

    Yes or No.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    You're wrong I'm afraid. It's not ethnic cleansing but it is illegal.

    Ruth FitzGerald SC: International humanitarian law in the conflict between Israel and Hamas | Irish Legal News

    Requiring the population to move to enable the attainment of military objective

    Article 49 of the Fourth Convention provides that individual, or mass, forcible transfer, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, “regardless of their motive”.

    Civilians are under no duty to remove themselves from an area of conflict, although if they wish to leave, they may do so unless their departure is contrary to the national interests of the state (Article 35 of the Fourth Convention). Further, Article 17 of Additional Protocol II provides that the displacement of civilians shall not be ordered unless “the security of the civilians involved or imperative military reasons so demand”. Where such displacements occur, all possible measures must be taken in order that the civilians are afforded satisfactory shelter, hygiene, safety and nutrition.

    The setting of a deadline by the Israeli authorities for the population of Gaza City to move south, with the threat of intense operations in Gaza City, taken with the failure to secure the conditions for the receipt of the civilians south of Wadi Gaza may constitute a constructive forcible transfer.

    Article 17 of Additional Protocol II provides that civilians shall not be compelled to leave their own territory for reasons connected with the conflict. Although Israel is not a party to the Protocol, the efforts of third parties to provide a humanitarian corridor into Sinai could be viewed as aiding and abetting Israel in the transfer of protected persons contrary to Article 49 of the Fourth Convention and Article 17 of Additional Protocol II as their intention is not relevant.

    ---------------------

    Many moved south with no shelter, water, safety or nutrition. Israel also continued to bomb the south.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,947 ✭✭✭circadian


    So if they no longer allow Palestinians to return to that area, which given what's happening in the West Bank isn't a stretch of the imagination, what do you call that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    The issue for many is that we are headed into another night where children in their hundreds are going to be mutilated. That to many is unconscionably inhuman



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,375 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Shifting the goalposts. To eradicate Hamas you need to eradicate the leadership.

    "Well they wont attack Qatar, but all the Hamas leadership are going to have a target on their backs for the rest of their lives."

    Ergo, Hamas will not be "eradicated"

    Israel said it would eradicate Hamas, but if it will not do so, this was a lie.

    The Allies destroyed the Nazi Party, yes, the surviving members were put on trial in Nuremburg.

    Hamas isn't a political ideology, it is a terror organization.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,363 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You are posting a plan which involved the movement of Arabs and would have gerrymandered to have an Israeli majority on what was left. It doesn't show what you appear to think it shows.

    An analogy in the Irish context would have been a hypothetical Cromwell expelling almost all the Irish to Connacht, leaving 3,000 behind in the other 3 provinces and then moving in 7,000 planters and then saying "sure of course we should have 70% of the island. Our population is 70% of the areas we are in"



  • Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    When you don't supply basic necessities while moving a population it is in direct contravention of IHL



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,375 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,363 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I think the more thoughtful question would be did they create it at Versailles?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Do you know anything about the open air prison that is Gaza? Hypothetical but if Israel defeats Hamas 100% - all dead - is that the end of hostilities? Problem solved? No more terrorist groups? Great place to live again? Is it that simple for you? These might help.

    Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

    Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 19,363 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    If Hamas is "eradicated", the State of Israel will just recreate it again in some other guise



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭keynes


    Israelis are bombing refugee camps, hospitals, the Red Cross, Medicines San Frontieres, aid workers, everything that moves. They are now simply out of control.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yeah the purpose of the blockade was to stop the likes of Hamas arming and to make the citizens of Gaza utterly miserable it seems (50% unemployment, economy in ruins). Hamas did smuggle in weapons somehow. Will Israel impose an even harsher blockade after this iteration of the ongoing war? 100%. Gaza must be a horrific place to live in. It will be worse after this war. Radicalisation of the next 2 generations of Gazans is almost guaranteed now.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    RTE

    Red Cross convoy hit by gunfire

    The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said a humanitarian convoy carrying lifesaving medical supplies came under fire in Gaza City.

    The convoy of five trucks and two Red Cross vehicles was carrying supplies to health facilities, including to Al-Quds hospital, when it was hit, an ICRC statement said, adding that two trucks were damaged and a driver lightly wounded.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭keynes


    Problem is not Hamas. Its the political tyranny that gave rise to Hamas. That is destined to get even worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,363 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Absolutely. Who is going to be easier to radicalise into running across a border in a pair of tracksuit bottoms with an AK-47 on a suicide mission in a few years - the now 13 year old boy that has seen his family house demolished and all his family crushed to death, or a 13 year old boy whose biggest care in the world is what version of iphone makes the best TikTok videos on while he looks forward to getting to college to study as an engineer or doctor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,947 ✭✭✭circadian


    American nurse just back from Gaza, sounds insane what was going on.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    It's not victim blaming. Israel has long given up it's right to play that victim card. They have well overstepped the mark. This is srebenica levels of massacre occuring at their hands


    When you spend decades covertly and overtly displacing people and creating refugees pits of millions, you don't get to be the victim any more

    When you do it so you can let a privileged, middle class , lawyer, doctor, dentist etc from Brooklyn take the rightful home of a Palestinian you don't get to play the victim.


    They don't get to play the anti semitism card every single **** time they don't like being called out



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,375 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Likud's original charter defined it's identity as a party on being opposed to the PLO. Having a boogeyman to fight is essential for the party's survival.

    "The PLO is no national liberation organization but an organization of assassins, which the Arab countries use as a political and military tool, while also serving the interests of Soviet imperialism, to stir up the area. Its aim is to liquidate the State of Israel, set up an Arab country instead and make the Land of Israel part of the Arab world. The Likud government will strive to eliminate these murderous organizations in order to prevent them from carrying out their bloody deeds"



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭blackcard


    Of course, the Arabs were against partition. They were a majority in Palestine. Why would they want it split up?

    Naturally, they didn't want to have 400,000 Arabs to be part of Israel with a 600, 000 jewish majority controlling them and the Arabs being second class citizens. It was a rotten deal for them brought about by massive pressure being put on the US and financial incentives and bribes to other countries. It was sheer stupidity by the UN. Maybe if they had proposed a more balanced solution, there might have been some hope of peace



Advertisement