Turned mains off but hot tap is still running water

MoonMotorway · 03-11-2023 4:52pm #1

I need to replace the tap in the kitchen. There's a valve in the hot press to turn and that turns the water off from the mains. As far as I know.

I turned that. The cold water taps in the bathroom stopped. The hot taps still rain but the pressure was much lower.

However the water still ran in the kitchen. I need to replace the kitchen tap.

I looked under the sink for isolation valves but there are no isolation valves under the sink.

I found this connection over to the side and it's connection to the cold water pipe and also the dishwasher. Would this be an isolation valve? Do I need a special key or tool to turn it? If so, that should look after the cold but how about the hot?

Wearb · 03-11-2023 5:27pm

If you have a cylinder in the hot press, post a picture of it.

MoonMotorway · 03-11-2023 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320869#Comment_121320869

There's a cylinder in the hot press but I am not at home right now to get a picture of it.

MoonMotorway · 03-11-2023 5:37pm

I'm not at home to take a picture of the cylinder but I know there are two more red levers located in the hot press. I don't know what they do.

03-11-2023 5:56pm

It's under the sink in the kitchen, look harder.

Wearb · 03-11-2023 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320907#Comment_121320907

It's the valve on the cold feed to cylinder. If you have trouble identifying the valve then the picture will help.

Princess Calla · 03-11-2023 9:08pm

I always thought the mains valve was downstairs. Usually in the kitchen somewhere.

The mains will feed your kitchen cold tap, so if there's water still running from that tap , you haven't turned off the mains.

The mains will also feed your attic tank, which in turn feeds the hotpress.

The hotpress cylinder will feed the bathroom Taps (hot and cold,which is why you don't drink from the bathroom taps) and it will also feed the kitchen hot tap. So you need to turn the valve in the hotpress for the hot water supply to kitchen off.

The cold water supply comes from mains. So you need to turn two valves off.

If your kitchen is an extension your mains maybe in the spot the original kitchen sink was in ...that's where ours is.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 7:04am

I turned valves in the hotpress. The water in the bathroom stopped. The hot water in the kitchen stopped but the cold in the kitchen kept coming in with a strong flow. I let the water run for about 20 minutes too but still now reduction in the cold flow to the kitchen.

spuddy4711 · 07-11-2023 7:13am

is there a water meter fitted outside the house ? If so, there will be a valve which controls the mains water to the kitchen

Former Former Former · 07-11-2023 7:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335612#Comment_121335612

The cold water in the kitchen flows directly from the mains, not from the tank, so once you find and close the right valve, it will shut off immediately.

It is almost certainly under your sink and it should be something you can open/close by hand. Think the "look harder" advice above is correct.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 7:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335624#Comment_121335624

I investigated under the sink. I can't find any value under the sink.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 7:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335617#Comment_121335617

There is a water meter. What do I need to turn the water off there? Will a screwdriver work?

Shoog · 07-11-2023 8:08am

If it's conventional and good the two leavers in the hot press will be hot and cold isolation valves. The rising main isolation under the sink will cut off water to the cold sink tap and everything else, but it would need you to drain down the header and the hot water cylinder before the taps stop running. Switch off both the leavers in the hot press.

There might also be other isolators for the central heating.

07-11-2023 8:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335625#Comment_121335625

Take a picture and upload it for us

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335691#Comment_121335691

This is under the sink. The pipe marked with an orange line is a waste water pipe. The other two is for hot and cold. The cold leads further up to a dishwasher valve. There's no valves lower down or above these pipes.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 9:55am

I am not able to get a good picture of the hotpress and tank.

Wearb · 07-11-2023 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335856#Comment_121335856

You've the hotness end sorted out (hotwater stopped).

You will probably need to stop the cold at the meter. I'd take that opportunity to fit a valve beneath the sink, unless you can find your house isolation valve (if fitted) in the meantime.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335941#Comment_121335941

Would I be able to pick up an isolation valve in any hardware shop? There's a small local hardware shop to me. I won't get a chance to get into any of the bigger hardware shops? Or will I order online for delivery hopefully this week. Should I hold off on work for another few days or will I keep trying to get a plumber (puke🤮). I rang many plumbers over the month and it's impossible to get one. I rang one plumber yesterday and he was due to phone me back in the evening and that was a lie. That was probably plumber number 6 at this stage.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 10:37am

By any chance is this what I am looking for, for installing an isolation valve under the sink.

Screenshot_2023-11-07-09-35-27-770_com.opera.browser.jpg

Shoog · 07-11-2023 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335994#Comment_121335994

No, it would work but they are for toilets and taps. What you want is a gate valve with a red ring handle.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 10:46am

Thank you for your reply

So something like this?

My copper pipes look flimsy. Will it hold something like this? What size do I get? I don't know what size fitting I have under the sink. I presume it's standard.

Do I need any other extra tools or rubber rings?

Would it be easy to install? Would it go on the pipe between the water in and the flexitail hose?

Screenshot_2023-11-07-09-43-11-428_com.android.chrome.jpg

listermint · 07-11-2023 11:00am

I feel this is a call a plumber tbh.

I'm very pro DIY. To a point.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336104#Comment_121336104

For the tap replacement job or for adding and isolation valve or for both?

I cant get a plumber right now. I need to stop a leak from the tap. There's a person at home with no comprehension and won't minimise the use of the sink/tap.

Once I figure out how to stop the water in the kitchen, I would be somewhat ok going ahead with taking out the old tap and installing a new one.

I suppose I could stall on adding an isolation valve until I have a plumber.

Wearb · 07-11-2023 11:29am

I'd agree that fitting a new isolation valve (I'd go for a quality lever valve) is best left to someone with experience. You'd have a flood if it gave way.

listermint · 07-11-2023 11:31am

I think for all of it. You're unsure what fittings to use. Your unsure if the pipe will take a fitting that it's intended to be used on. You're having trouble locating how the house is fed and which source is for which part of the system.

Which leads me to think you may make fundamental mistakes in installing these fittings causing further issues.

I'm not trying to be mean. Just realistic plumbing may come across as easy. But it's not. Especially when there is water pouring on to a kitchen floor.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336267#Comment_121336267

Replacing the tap should be fairly straight forward once I get the water turned off.

I am not trying to be stingy or save money by trying this myself. I cannot get a plumber. At this rate I will have to dip into nearby counties to try and get a plumber from somewhere else and with the way plumbers behave I will have to book as many as possible and see if one of them turns up to do this job.

I cannot get a plumber.

There is no saving money in what I am doing and the tools I am buying anyways.

I will forget about adding an isolation valve for now.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 1:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335617#Comment_121335617

There is a water meter door in the ground on the road but I don't know if it's ours or the neighbours. It looks more likely the neighbours because it's located closer to them.

I can't find another door. I don't know if there's anything in the grass ditch.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 1:38pm

I rang two more plumbers there and no luck. They are f*cking useless.

I need to figure out how to get the cold water to stop in my kitchen. There's definitely no isolation valves under the sink. I pulled the levered in the hotpress and I only managed to get the hot water to step. What am I doing wrong. Do I need to leave a tap running for a while and empty the tank? I am not able to climb into the attic if there's any work need to be done there.

I am not able to identify the meter outside and if it's the neighbours or not.

Wearb · 07-11-2023 3:15pm

"Do I need to leave a tap running for a while and empty the tank? "

No.

You already know how to stop the hot side.

Wearb · 07-11-2023 3:19pm

If you can't get a dedicated plumber for some of those small jobs, try some property maintainence companies, or handy man/woman.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 3:25pm

The levers I turned in the hotpress were located up high in the hot press.

There is a pipe coming down from the tank in the hotpress. I wonder would it be this that would manage the kitchen water.

Further left to the lower picture, is a pump on the same pipeline. I would have presumed that would be boiler.

Wearb · 07-11-2023 3:37pm

Your kitchen cold water will not likely be fed from any tank.

Nothing in those pictures gives any clues to kitchen cold water isolation.

Banjo Carney · 07-11-2023 3:38pm

The gate valve for turning off my mains water is at the very bottom of the hotpress in the kitchen

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337460#Comment_121337460

Are you talking about your hotpress or the picture above that I provided.

This one

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 4:17pm

I got through to a plumber and he said it will be next week when he will be able to get to me but to be honest I am not holding my breath for him to follow through.

I will need to plug away at seeing if I can do this myself.

The leak is getting bad.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 4:22pm

There's a pipe coming down from the hotpress cylinder. It's not the radiator pipe. That's a different pipe.

There's this thing attached to the bottom of the pipe. I didn't turn anything yet but I think maybe, it could be that.

There's got to be an isolation valve somewhere inside to the kitchen cold water. It doesn't make any sense how there isn't any. I just have to find it.

There's a little square nub there. Would a key like that turn it?

I won't be turning anything yet.

Shoog · 07-11-2023 4:25pm

Those are draincock for draining the pipes, usually they indicate that you are dealing with central heating pipes not supply pipes

Princess Calla · 07-11-2023 4:39pm

Do you live in an estate?

If you do and your houses are identical, knock into one of your neighbours.

People are usually very good at giving a dig out.

They'll be able to show you where your mains valve is .

Might just cost you a box of chocolates.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 4:42pm

Unfortunately I don't live in an estate.

Macker · 07-11-2023 4:56pm

My isolation valve is under the stairs ,look there

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337791#Comment_121337791

I don't have stairs.

listermint · 07-11-2023 5:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337488#Comment_121337488

This is a drain valve for servicing the heating system as is the one behind it.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337893#Comment_121337893

Thank you, there is a pump a few inches away from here and it must be the boiler. I won't touch that.

I find it odd how there isn't a cold water isolation valve inside the main part of the house. I don't know what's in the attic.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 7:21pm

I will try and get a picture of the hotpress cylinder tonight. Although I was only able to identify three levers there. One of them turns off the water in the bathroom. There's another lever that I turned and when I turned it back, I did hear a flow of water coming into the cylinder tank. The third one I don't know what it does.

Marlay · 07-11-2023 8:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338395#Comment_121338395

There will be a cold feed into the cylinder and a hot feed out. The cold taps in the bathroom will be coming from a tank in the attic. The hot taps in the bathroom and the kitchen are fed from the cylinder. You stop the hot taps by turning off the feed going in to the cylinder. No pressure in means no water out. The cold taps will be turned off on a separate pipe, not going to the cylinder. As mentioned the kitchen cold tap will be mains fed, so the cylinder is irrelevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MjvEans1kU

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338543#Comment_121338543

Thanks for the reply and this does clear it up a lot.

It doesn't make any sense how there isn't an isolation valve somewhere in the kitchen or hotpress to stop the mains water. Surely there would have been something built in. I can't find it under the sink.

I can't identify any other lever or in the hotpress to stop the mains.

MoonMotorway · 07-11-2023 8:54pm

The lever that I circled in yellow is a stopcock. A plumber mentioned before to me that, that stops the water from the mains outside. This is the one that stops the water in the bathroom.

I am not at home to follow this pipe and see where it leads to.

I don't know what the other lever operates.

There's a another lever to the corner to this that isn't in the picture.

MoonMotorway · 08-11-2023 9:23am

I'm not able to find any cold water isolation inside. Unless if it's in the attic but I doubt it.

Would it be behind the washing machine, I wonder? I doubt it though. I reckon the kitchen taps would be the first water in source and the washing machine and dishwasher would run of the kitchen cold.

I explored the meter outside but with no luck. The door on the road is a big heavy iron door about the size of an A4 page. So I don't know if it's shared with the neighbours or if there's two meters inside of the door. I tried lifting it but it's too heavy to lift.

The leak in the tap is getting worse now.

Shoog · 08-11-2023 9:33am

Cold feed rising main is almost always just below the kitchen sink tap in the press or under it . It usually is a stopcock with a branched pipe off it, one branch feeds the tap and one branch feeds the header tank in the loft.

Trace the pipe below the sink tap until it leaves the house and if there is a stopcock that is where you will find it.

If by some Miricle it is missing the meter stopcock will do the same job. If it is missing you need to add one in because in a flood emmergance you do not want to have to run outside and mess with the meter.

It is unlikely that the meter is under the heavy metal door, they are usually in the verge and have a small round plastic cover (unless they are really old which would mean you need a special key to close them). Meter covers are often overgrown and can be a nightmare to find, which is why you need a house stopcock.

munsterfan2 · 08-11-2023 9:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335855#Comment_121335855

Is there much room under that board, it's possible the kitchen cabinets have been build over the isolation valve

MoonMotorway · 08-11-2023 10:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340180#Comment_121340180

I will explore under the sink again but I really don't think there's anything else there.

I went for a walk this morning and my neighbours meter doors are black circle/square on the entrance outside their boundary walls.

I can't find that outside my house. I vaguely remember something a few years ago in a ditch but I never took note of it but it's only a vague memory.

I do have a plumber booked now and he seems decent. He said he will be with me next week but he will try and get to me sooner of he can. I asked him for the installation of an isolation valve too.

I am going to keep exploring the kitchen sink press but I really don't think I am missing much else under there and if I can't find anything I will go outside in the ditch and start pulling grass.

Turned mains off but hot tap is still running water

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