Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Lol... did you even read your own links - so Arafat signed both Oslo I and Oslo II..

Also...

But the Oslo process confronted its first major hurdle on November 4, 1995, when Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist after attending a peace rally. Israel’s 1996 election, reflecting the growing concerns of the Israeli public over national security, brought to power Benjamin Netanyahu, an outspoken critic of the Oslo Accords.

Correction. 99% of those with empathy for Palestinian suffering aren't Zionists and apologists for those attempting a genocide.

And for the gazillionith time, explaining the logic of why Hamas exists as it does not mean someone is a terrorist apologist.

Next year when the US presidential election is in full swing, I expect to be on here condemning those who support various Republican candidates while simultaneously flying flags with nazi symbols.

But, I know that then that debate is happening, that there will be posters in it who support the GOP candidate (who will not renounce the flag flyers) who are in this debate actively cheering Israel on. Please explain that level of expertise to me when you have it figured out.

So, o.k. for Israel not to recognize a Palestinian state as part of a 2 state solution?

If they don't recognize each other (in the diplomatic sense) then there's no exchange of ambassadors, no embassies, no way to deal with diplomatic concerns. I think it's a must for a 2-state solution, whatever that entails, actually, recognition is the least of the problems but a catchy phrase nonetheless.

BDS isn't a cancelable offense.

Perfectly normal sentiment that our US tax dollars don't go to bombs dropped on kids heads or the efforts thereof. People might have all sorts of reasons though for not wanting to support them, eg. fungible US money going to government-subsidized abortions in Israel.

Now I understand AIPAC and aligned interests have fought the US constitution tooth and nail to BAN even talking about doing such a thing, but US Citizens still have a right to buy what they want, from where they want, and money and speech are legally synonymous. The lobbies work hard to ensure not wanting taxdollars spent on killing children is synonymous in the political narrative with wanting Holocaust II (which is absurd).

This argumentum ad hominem may hold sway with Hasbara but not with me sorry. ADL just labels the group antisemitic/antisemitic-adjacent (they're Jewish ffs), it also engages in tropes of it's own in the article you linked, 'doesn't listen to these Jews, these aren't real Jews, they don't represent us'

In most circumstances the ADL is great but in instances like these they go too far. Dealing with other Jewish groups that don't align with their politics is a real blindspot of theirs, and IMHO it is apparent here.

Yeah our transition period lasted about 20 years.

Blinken is not trustworthy.

You really need to stop with the terrorist apologist angle. People have repeatedly condemned Hamas, yet whenever a rebuttal it posted, along with proof you predictably descend into name calling like terrorist apologist or holocaust denier. It doesnt enhance your argument one bit.

Nor mine

Think this is absolutely the case.

For me, (completely removed and in no way in a position to state definitively) I think Nethanyahu and is supporters facilitated the emboldening of Hamas over the last several years knowing an attack would come at some point and that when it did, they could use it to justify they take over of as much territory as possible. Yesterday we saw videos of thousands of people being forced to leave Palestinian territory on foot. When will they ever be back there again?

Their supporters who simultaneously talk about the breadth and severity of the Hamas attack and then present IDF released supposed recordings of Hamas individuals aren't looking at it objectively enough to square the circle that either they have very detailed and accessible intelligence of Hamas communications and therefore allowed the attack to happen through abject failure, or they don't have such intelligence and so using it now to present a narrative is just PR work.

Just watching the news there.

Who is stopping EU citizens leaving Gaza? And whereabouts are they in Gaza while they wait to be allowed to leave?

It's worth getting familiar with them. They were pretty close to a true peaceful settlement on par with say the good friday agreement here - not all the way because the accords still had details to be ironed out and vague language that left wiggle room, but there was real and genuine progress being made in good faith between the government of Israel and the PLO that could have led to the liberation of the Palestinian people and an end to the violence that the occupation has caused.

However it was ultimately killed when right wing Jewish ethnic supremacists murdered the Israeli primeminister in retaliation for his commitment to peace. Likud, Netanyahu's party that basically represents these nationalists came to power soon after and are in power today, now in coalition with even more extreme far right parties. There was stop-start progress occasionally after Rabin's assassination as Israel's government has flip flopped and the nationalists haven't been in power continually, but it's always been against the backdrop of ever expanding Israeli settlements and land thefts that offered less and less to the Palestinians.

In parallel with that the nationalist Israeli government also basically created Hamas by nurturing them and funding them in order to destabilise the peacemakers in power on the Palestinian side too (there are many many interviews with former Israeli officials openly admitting that this was the policy) - not to mention the endless brutality they've carried out against Palestinians that turned more and more people towards extremism as their only way out, making peaceful settlement ever more difficult.

Then why must Palestinian state flags be taken down at all?

Firstly, it was my friends fathers work colleagues. We were targeted for what would appear to be absolutely no reason. Either way, this is guilt by association, something that happens regularly in Palestine. You're basing this idea that Ireland is anti-semitic on something that cannot be quantified and there is very little outward evidence of it being so.

As for the chants of "from the river to the sea" it's debatable if it's anti-semitic. Loaded? 100%, just as it is when it's referenced in the Likud Party Constitution "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."

I don't feel this attempted to address the question at all. Why must we take down our Israel and Palestine flags?

I don't think there is anything objective about reading so much into flags going up. It's just judgmental.

Does this mean new Israel flags that are seen from today on are pro-child bombing? It's the same fallacy.

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