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N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭cantalach


    Well it's also providing an opportunity to pass slower moving vehicles. For tunnel-bound traffic on the N25W, it's 1.1km from the initial diverge from the mainline to the merge point immediately before the tunnel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭cantalach


    ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,464 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Often thought there should be a visable barrier of sorts in the tunnel , wether its aheavy duty rumble strip, or a flexible bollard that emergency services can ignore and drive over when in need,

    As someone else said we're not great at merging in this country , but it can happen , used to happen seamlessly on western road ,by ucc gate ,many years back ,

    But if they give one lane priority then it'll be carnage , i've already seen vans and car being the lane police, blocking the right hand lane ,to stop others "skipping the que" its 2 lanes for a reason

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,469 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    The solution is to make alternate / zip merging compulsory, have a very visible publicity campaign, followed by signage at merging locations and an advisory approach by road policing units and then followed by enforcement by road policing units.

    Similarly with the solid white line from the M8 / N25 merge towards the tunnel. Put a camera there and issue fixed charge penalty notices for crossing the solid white line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    You won't get zip merging to work with lane markings which indicate one of the two lanes has priority and the other is required to join the priority lane.

    For zip merging to work neither lane should have priority over the other and the lane markings should change into a sort of upside-down Y where the merge is required.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus



    A zipper merge isn’t as effective as having less lanes, albeit those lanes being longer to help with traffic queueing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,715 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Picture: Traffic lanes merging. According to the zipper principle, the two lanes are driven on up until they end, and at the point where they merge the vehicles in the two lanes should take turns to join the new lane. This sign can only be used when two lanes are merged into one. It may also be used for temporary traffic arrangements.

    like in Finland?

    Inviting graffiti.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    How are people expecting the Slip roads to eventually tie into the M8?

    My thoughts:

    • Both the N25 to M8 and City to M8 slips will feed into the left lane.
    • Slip from tunnel will continue in the right lane.
    • Solid white line between both lanes until well beyond the junction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Yeah sounds right, traffic volumes on that direction are realtively low though, I don't think it's an issue whichever way you draw it up



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,380 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Are the extra lanes helping the flow from n25w into the tunnel? Know its early days but it had been backed up to tunnel, now appears to be good bit shorter (solely anecdotal based in looking when walking over the flayover and looking at Maps).



  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    They are helping me anyway as it is now much quicker in the mornings to access the tunnel from N25W by going straight to the Tivoli roundabout, doing a U-turn in order to merge free flow with M8S traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    Not much work done on Link K this week and per today's newsletter they will still be concentrating on Link C over the coming weeks.

    Finishing link K and the slip to town seems like an easy win for 2 of the biggest tailbacks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,380 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Thought Link K was done now after the extra lanes opened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    Link K right hand lane is still blocked off with cones and has tailbacks to little island exit at peak times.

    You can see this in the east facing camera.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    It’s weird because I’ve driven past this and cannot see what is remaining to be done to open this section.

    Light sequence at Dunkettle Roundabout perhaps will need to be further updated?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭cantalach


    Yeah, for the life of me I can’t figure out why they’re taking so many links to 99% completeness but then leaving cones and speed restrictions in place. Is it some sort of intentional traffic calming strategy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Sailed through the interchange, northbound from the N40 to the N25 at 4:40 pm this afternoon.

    Traffic queued back to Laya on the N25 to N40 westbound, just goes to show that 3 into 1 will never work at rush hour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭cantalach


    That tallies with my experience. I left Fitzpatrick’s in Glounthane at 5:10pm, intending to take N40 as far as the Mahon exit. The queue from the tunnel went back along the N25W as far as MSL Mercedes. I said “fcuk that!” and went through town. But I wasn’t alone. Traffic was backed up the entire length of the quay. Finally got home to Ballinlough at 6:15pm. There were no accidents or incidents that I’m aware of. I am starting to wonder if we’ve been sold a pup with the DKI, at least for southbound traffic.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Yea the most recent drone video of the interchange showed a long tailback through the junction due to that very issue. Not looking good.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    zip merging is basically where people arent cnts to each other and by magic you work out where every second car should be and with everyone playing along it works really well.

    Any where I see it abroad theres 1 main lane and 1 lane thats being discontinued - and the important thing is that everyone goes in both lanes right to the bitter end.

    I can see where in Ireland where people are pure btards to each other when merging (end of Ballincollig bypass being a nice example and even the parents in law proactively block anyone from merging) you may need a different approach (and have both lanes given equal status so theres no proactive blocking of people in the "other" lane)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    All the zip merging in the world won't change the physics of funnelling three lanes into one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,404 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Without being familar the area, have traffic patterns changed since the design modelling was done. Or is it just the passage of time and increased vehicle trips.



  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    They closed local access to the interchange southbound from the M8 side forcing that traffic onto what was already the busiest junction (N25 Westbound to interchange) where they are now filtering 3 lanes into 1.



  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    From latest newsletter all work is still stopped on Link K (N25W to tunnel) and Tunnel to City slip. Traffic chaos from East Cork to continue with free lanes coned off back to the Little Island flyover for no apparent reason.

    Looks like we may need to wait until February 2024 for these to fully open.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The free lane will just give stacking space for queues. The 3-into-1 is unfortuantely fundamentally flawed and something we'll just have to all live with the consequences of. IMO there should not be two lanes on the N25W to N40W slip, it just creates an unnecessary merge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭serfboard


    As an outsider looking at this, it seems to me that the extra (and IMO unnecessary) junction at Little Island (presumably demanded by the businesses there) has really bollixed up this whole project. They already had a junction (junction 2). That was enough for them. Had that junction not been built, you could have had a single lane slip from N25W to N40W.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    You're missing a detail. The businesses weren't pushing for the junction. There was a big problem with queuing on the N25 previously to get into Little Island. The businesses have long been pushing for public transport. The council were pushing for a Little Island East junction (to open up undeveloped lands) and had some small amount of business support for that.

    Because of the removal of the M8 "Ibis" slip road, and the lack of a direct Dublin-to-Cork-City movement this project gave them a new Little Island West junction instead. It was a bit of a fudge. Better solutions would have been very complex and expensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭eastie17


    Travel from the east on this every morning and its fecken joke, opening all the lanes into the tunnel will help a little bit, but the merge jam in peak times will just move further up that link.

    I didnt pay much attention to the design, as to be honest I couldnt make much sense of it, but surely you dont need to be an engineer to figure out that amount of merging was going to cause problems of a) being a significant bottleneck and b) creating opportunities for more accidents and therefore more significant delays.

    Surely the point of any engineering exercise is to engineer out as much human error (Accidents) as possible and engineer in efficiency.

    Yes, we have gotten rid of lights but some mornings its as bad if not worse than it was before it opened. Not as bad as during construction but that would be fairly damning if it was.

    Looks like its been badly designed for traffic coming from east cork or has been built too late due to volumes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    The problem is the tunnel only being 2 lanes. No junction can solve for this. I’d imagine the cost of sinking a third bore would be prohibitive and contra to current transport philosophy.



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