General gaming discussion

Retr0gamer · 07-11-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337104#Comment_121337104

Oh don't get me wrong, consistent 30 fps is much better than a wildly inconsistent 60 FPS but it infuriates me when peopl try to gaslight me it's better or no different .

Markitron · 07-11-2023 4:48pm

I'm fine with people saying they don't mind a stable 30 FPS, but when people say they can't see the difference they are either straight-up lying or have something seriously wrong with their eyes

Penn · 07-11-2023 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337551#Comment_121337551

I used to be of that opinion, but yeah over time the more you play 60fps the more you notice it. I think the first time I really noticed the difference was The Last of Us when it was released on PS4 compared to the PS3 version. Probably same with the GTAV re-release on PS4. Maybe because in both cases there was a clear comparison.

Nowadays though I don't think anyone can act like there's no difference, especially since so many games have dedicated performance v resolution modes that you can switch between so easily.

Retr0gamer · 07-11-2023 5:01pm

The issue was that during the PS360 and PS4 era unless you had a PC or some of the Nintendo games on Wii and WiiU there were very few 60 fps 3D games. The only ones I can think of are the Platinum made games (and even then Bayonetta was a disaster on PS3). It's very obvious that the platinum games play so much better than any 30 fps game from that era but I get the feeling that the gaslighters weren't doing it on purpose and probably had never even experienced a 60 fps 3D game before.

johnny_ultimate · 07-11-2023 5:01pm

Actual film grain - ie actual film! - I’m totally on board with. I honestly feel it helps a film feel more immersive, as it creates a sort of divide between the audience and the film. That sounds counterintuitive, but I feel overly glossy, hyper-detailed cinematography highlights the artificial nature of the production more aggressively. I’ve seen classic films that have been ‘denoised’ or had film grain toned down, and they just look… off. Our brains are more happy to forgive shortcomings IMO when there’s that visual barrier separating the film from reality. It’s why HDR, HFR and soap opera effect look so uncanny sometimes.

The problem is that ‘digital grain’ - artificially added to digital images or games - often looks overly noisy and fake. It’s not natural grain - it’s just digital dots all over the screen. It’s trying to fake something. I think it can be done well, though - Alan Wake 2 I think the colour grading and art design is so strong a layer of film grain enhances the atmosphere by giving it a filmic sheen. It isn’t too aggressive either, which helps. Other games I’d immediately turn it off, as it serves no substantial aesthetic purpose.

Cordell · 07-11-2023 5:44pm

30 vs 60 - as some posters already alluded, it's also how you play, what you play and what kind of gamer you are: if you're a casual gamer playing story driven non challenging games using a controller with aim assist it's very unlikely to care that much.

PixelPlayer · 07-11-2023 7:22pm

I challenge anyone to play forza on 60fps for a while and then drop down to 30fps and try not to drive like a drunk driver.

What people don't realise is the lower fps creates lag. Saying you don't notice it just means you've adjusted.to playing with lag. But have no doubts about it it is giving you a worse gaming experience.

It's.exacerbated in games where response time is really important, like forza or multiplayer fps games.

Likewise, play any 30fps game at all on xcloud and it really is borderline unplayable. Again, it's being exacerbated where lag is already high.

This gen console should have been 60fps minimum. The recent spate of "artistic choice" to lock at 30fps is utter bullshit, nobody should accept it.

Greyfox · 07-11-2023 7:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338006#Comment_121338006

True, the fact is many people just don't care all that much about framerate, yes I can feel a difference but its not enough to put me off a game. Playing a brilliant game in 30fps is still a far better experience to playing a mediocre game in 60fps.

warrior00 · 07-11-2023 10:33pm

30fps doesn't bother me. I actually do not notice the difference between 30/60 or 120. Yes I have played games at high refresh for years as I had a 6900 XT and now a 7900 XTX and other high end GPU's previously but as I said I do not notice 30 fps on my Xbox Series X. One thing I do remember is Freesync on my 144Hz, 27" 1440P monitor many years ago. Now that was a game changer.

jj880 · 07-11-2023 11:11pm

For me theres a huge difference. Im a big Thumper fan. Sunk a lot of hours into the PS4 version (60fps). Got the PS5 upgrade as soon as it was released (120fps) and found it buttery smooth in comparison. Im not saying anyone is spoofing but Im very surprised. Maybe it depends on the game and TV / monitor.

johnny_ultimate · 07-11-2023 11:30pm

Music games benefit massively from higher frame rates, relative to a lot of other genres (outside of obvious ones like twitchy, fast paced shooters). I played HiFi Rush on PC at 120, but tried on Steam Deck at 60 and it totally threw off my timing and rhythm as it just wasn’t as responsive. Not sure if the compatibility layer made a difference there too, but it really was a big gulf in playability.

warrior00 · 07-11-2023 11:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339523#Comment_121339523

Maybe it depends on the TV / monitor.

I have a 120Hz 4k OLED C2 with Freesync Premium.

jj880 · 07-11-2023 11:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339604#Comment_121339604

Well I did say:

Maybe it depends on the game and TV / monitor

Not sure why you took that out.

Thats a very nice TV. I think Thumper really shines on an OLED panel with its insane pace and bright colours against the deep blacks.

Grumpypants · 08-11-2023 12:09am

I'm about 7 hours into Chernobylite. It's a few years old from polish Dev Farm 51.

It took a while to get into it but really enjoying it now.

It uses a photo scanning tech so it looks amazing.

Because it's set in Chernobyl and a FPS there are obvious Metro vibes, and it feels similar with that janky eastern European combat. It has added the exploring and resources gathering of fallout.

Also much like metro once you get over that initial hump it gets very good.

It has a layer of paranormal activity, base building, team building, crafting.aaand time travel!

Essentially you pick one mission to do per day. You go into the exclusion zone and while the mission has a marker you are free to explore and gather resources for your base too. You finish the mission and come back to do up the base, craft supplies, train skills for the next day.

https://youtu.be/yN8PCE6LjQ4?feature=shared

awec · 08-11-2023 12:10am

Honestly I am sceptical of anyone who claims not to notice a difference between 30fps and 60fps. The difference is massive, it's not in any way subtle. It's one of those things you will immediately notice. The difference between 30fps and 60fps is as obvious as the difference between SD and HD.

When it comes to frame rate there is definitely a point of diminishing returns where the difference becomes more and more subtle, but 30 -> 60 is definitely not.

30fps sucks really. Sometimes you have to tolerate it but in reality it's terrible. I don't believe there is any excuse for any big budget game these days being released with a 30fps frame rate.

Liamalone · 08-11-2023 1:56am

Very good vision here and I've yet to notice frame rate differences in games, but then I don't go hunting for them. Can someone give me a test game or two to see the craic?

johnny_ultimate · 08-11-2023 2:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339913#Comment_121339913

Any modern game that has ‘fidelity’ and ‘performance’ modes - most current gen games on PS5 or Xbox Series X have the option, or on PC many games allow you to set the frame rate. Switch between them and play a little bit in each - you should be able to see and feel the difference. Insomniac games like Spider-Man or Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart have particularly exceptional and polished options so they’d be good test games.

Penn · 08-11-2023 11:12am

Don't think I'm going to continue on with Armored Core 6. Got to the first or second mission in Chapter 3 and just not feeling it. I enjoy the combat for the most part, but outside of the bosses everything else just feels kind of draining and repetitive. I'm not really into working out builds or testing parts/weapons.

It's definitely a great game, I just don't think I'm really in the mood for it and don't really know if I will be.

Retr0gamer · 08-11-2023 12:07pm

You getting frustrated with the difficulty or just not feeling it?

Penn · 08-11-2023 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340726#Comment_121340726

Just not feeling it tbh. The boss fights and their difficulty are the part I'm fine with. The normal gameplay is the part I'm just really not bothered with. But I also know it's going to get to the stage where I need to try out different builds and weapons for the best chance against bosses, and as much as I enjoyed the main bosses so far I don't really enjoy the game enough to push forward with it.

I've gotten the hankering to play Bloodborne again instead, though I might play Alan Wake 2 first just to get it out of the way.

Andrew76 · 08-11-2023 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340866#Comment_121340866

Have you played Lies of P yet? It’s utterly fantastic, takes the best parts of FromSoft’s games and improves on them in some areas imo. The perfect filler while we wait for Bloodborne 2. Game of the year for me easily.

Penn · 08-11-2023 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342193#Comment_121342193

Yeah finished it maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago. Absolutely agree that it's a fantastic game, definitely one of my favourites this year.

johnny_ultimate · 08-11-2023 4:40pm

It has been very inconsiderate of all the interesting video games to come out alongside all the equally interesting video games this year.

SuperBowserWorld · 08-11-2023 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339913#Comment_121339913

Watch this at high quality. On my phone that's 720x60 FPS. You can see the flicker, juddering on lower frame rates. Now, maybe you TV compensates for this when you play games... so you visually don't notice. It's a visual thing and it's a feel thing. It's especially noticeable on OLED tv screens in game mode.

https://youtu.be/_SzGQkI-IwM?feature=shared

Retr0gamer · 08-11-2023 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342487#Comment_121342487

I also think there's quite a few people that say there's no difference and have a fancy new tv have the frame interpolation (motion smoothing on LG) turned on as it's on by default. Gives the impression of a 60 fps game but you still have input lag and added ghosting. If movies and tv look like an Australian soap opera then frame interpolation is on.

SuperBowserWorld · 08-11-2023 5:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342516#Comment_121342516

Yes, I play TOTK in Australian Soap Opera Mode (ASOM). And it looks fine, gorgeous even, no ghosting, but feels sluggish.

I think it's better on newer LG TVs too as they've faster processors.

In Game Mode it makes me feel sick after a while. The absolute worst was trying RDR2 (Xbox Series X) on my new OLED TV and feeling robbed. It's terrible and it looked fine on my old LCD monitor.

I keep meaning to try RDR1 and 2 in ASOM mode 😁 now that I know about it.

Cordell · 08-11-2023 6:44pm

No matter how fast the processor is it will still have to buffer a couple of frames which is going to introduce a huge input lag no matter how smooth it seems. And that's a good explanation on why some don't feel the difference between 30 and 60, it's killed by the TV post processing.

warrior00 · 08-11-2023 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342487#Comment_121342487

I don't trust those videos. My personal opinion is that large round dot is pre programmed to be choppy. Because I do not get that while playing games on my Xbox SX. I'm currently playing Starfield which is known to be 30fps and it is perfectly fine. I also own Starfield on Steam and play it at high refresh with my 7800X3D and 7900 XTX and it's no different from my Xbox.

Retr0gamer · 08-11-2023 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342749#Comment_121342749

Maybe years ago but response times have gotten so much better and stuff like oleds have very fast response times with processing turned off. The lag from the computer/console is an awful lot more especially with many games being double and triple buffered. Going from 60 to 30 effectively doubles that lag which is a very noticeable increase.

Cordell · 08-11-2023 10:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342924#Comment_121342924

I was talking about the response time with post processing enabled. With no processing even very old LCDs should have no lag, maybe slow panels resulting in smearing, but no input lag.

General gaming discussion

Comments