Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Have you convinced yourself that all these lads involved in the diplomatic negotiations with Israel to try to get the Irish citizens on the list to leave - diplomats on both on the Irish side and the Israeli side - haven't realised what you know, which is that it is nothing to do with Israel?

Or perhaps all the reports and mentions of said negotiations and interactions are simply more antisemitic Western media and political fearmongering and hate-rousing?

One might have imagined that the Israeli diplomatic service would be quite busy at the minute. You wouldn't think they'd just not bother telling the Irish diplomats - "ah shure that's nothing to do with us" rather than wasting everyone's time.

Or perhaps the Israeli diplomats don't know as much about that area as you do. Have you ever considered offering your services as an expert on the region to them?

He's not - below extract from Reuters.

Aid trucks drive through the Egyptian border gate at Rafah before heading more than 40km (25 miles) to the Egyptian-Israeli crossing of Al-Awja/Nitzana for inspection, as agreed in negotiations with Israel. Trucks return to Egypt empty, with the aid reloaded onto separate trucks for delivery into Gaza.

Israel refuses to allow fuel into Gaza, saying it could be used by the Hamas militant group for their military goals.

During past conflicts aid was mainly delivered from Israel, and the U.N. aid operation for Palestinians has been run through Israel since the 1950s.

The United Nations has pushed for Israel to open its Kerem Shalom crossing, near where Israel, Gaza and Egypt meet.

Who controls the Rafah crossing and why is it so important to Gaza? | Reuters

The first World Trade Centre bomb attack, Rawanda massacre and the war in the former Yugoslavia took place within this timeframe as well as ongoing attacks on US ships and other interests as a response, and precursor to the 9/11 attacks. The Somalia civil war started in 1991.

It obviously wasn't the same as WW2 or anything like that but its false to suggest that that period was anything like the 'Golden Years' you paint them to be.

The article says this.

What that article is also alluding to is how and what goods are allowed into Gaza.

I never said Israel doesn't have a say in this.

But Israel doesn't get a say on who leaves Gaza.

Ward that the Israelis have never started and have always only defended themselves.

I'm convinced that nobody truly believes this lie, some will pretend they do, but they know what the reality is.

We've had all sorts of claims made on here like those who voice up for the lives of Palestinians are antisemitic, and holocaust deniers, and pro-Hamas etc etc etc.

This is just another one of them seeking to absolve the most military powerful country in the region as it carries out the genocide it's leaders said it would.

I guess it is similar to how Cromwell only defended his country against the savage Irish attackers................. 🤔

It's quite clear at this stage (well it was said from the outset) that Israel are obviously just going to stretch out their window for killing as many Palestinians as possible.

They will ignore the growing international calls for as long as they can, and brazen it out until they are actually stopped by the US. Even then, all the US can do is temporarily stop their money and military aid flowing in, so they'll get to continue on after that's stopped until it is about to run out. Then they can hold their hands up and say "we are sorry US, we didn't mean it. Please start giving us money again" and we'll go back to the start of the cycle.

And nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all

The needle returns to the start of the song

And we all sing along like before

The Articles of War website continues to give some hard analysis of the allegations of war crimes. A pity it doesn't seem to allow links. From a recent article about ambulances:

"Ambulances have regularly been used by armed groups to carry out attacks and transport weapons. In 2011, in Iraq, insurgents used ambulances packed with explosives to attack police buildings. In 2016, ISIS used two ambulances in a coordinated suicide attack in Samarra and Tikrit that killed over 25 people. The ICC has recent experience investigating perfidy and treacherty. As part of its preliminary examination into Afghanistan the Prosecutor of the ICC concluded that the Taliban has potentially committed the war crime of killing or wounding treacherously a combatant adversary (art. 8(2)(e)(ix)), citing the example in 2011 of the Taliban using an ambulance to carry out a suicide attack on the Afghan National Police training centre in Kandahar that killed 12 officers and injured others (para. 156). Similarly in 2018, the Taliban drove another ambulance laden with explosives into the government and business district of Kabul detonating it and killing over 100 people and injuring over 235 others. The ICRC has noted that the misuse of ambulances by fighters, “gravely compromises the neutrality of health-care providers,” an abuse of trust, that has “serious consequences in terms of public perceptions, effectiveness and security.”"

From reading the whole article, the ambulance incident definitely involved a war crime, possibly on both sides. If Hamas was using the ambulances to carry weapons and soldiers to attack the IDF, that is a war crime. If the IDF didn't give specific warnings about the ambulance in advance, even if it was carrying weapons and soldiers, that is a war crime.

What was truly horrifying from the article though, was the scale of attacks on ambulances in other conflicts:

"From 2016 to 2017 alone, 243 ambulances were attacked in Syria with the Syrian government responsible for 123 and Russian forces damaging or destroying 60 others."

Where is the outrage from Paul Murphy et al about this?

The beaker people are coming to take back wickow

I haven't seen one post on here denying the massacre on October 7th or the savagery of the attack. However, it is right to question if all the stories are correct. The main one being 40 babies beheaded, which is the most visceral of images and was used by many to justify any response and is completely fake.

There are plenty of armchair military analysts on this thread and it's obvious that Hamas did not have the weapons needed to cause some of the destruction shown from that day, which also resulted in the most gruesome damage to victims. There is a lot of eye witness evidence that the IDF was fairly indiscriminate in their attacking of Hamas infiltrators using tanks shells and attack helicopters which resulted in numerous civilian casualties. A lot of this is in keeping with their own doctrine to stop hostages being taken.

These images and stories are being used to justify the further killing of Palestinians in Gaza and that it why it is important to call them out. If you feel that having 1200 citizens murdered isn't enough justification for the actions your committing without spicing things up with stories of babies beheaded etc., then your planning some truly barbaric retaliation.

International law agreed upon by the international community which you have dismissed as banana republics, chiefdoms etc.

So when it suits you, you are all for what is agreed upon by the international community but when it doesn’t suit you, you dismiss the international community as a bunch of tinpot dictators.

Hypocrisy.

Alright, what has this got to do with the topic of discussion?

Also, this website?

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/attacks-misuse-ambulances-during-armed-conflict/

"Concluding Thoughts

The purpose of this blog is not to point fingers, but to shed light on the place of IHL in legal analysis of the use of lethal force in the Gaza/Israel conflict. The protection of medical units and transports is a primary concern of the First Geneva Convention. More generally, it fundamentally underpins the work of the ICRC and other humanitarian organizations in alleviating suffering in war.

We must articulate IHL, including its rules for targeting medical transports, in a manner that it is not simply a means to green light military operations no matter their human cost. IHL is a legal minimum, where we strive for the lowest common denominator of compliance. It is to be, as far as possible, a mitigating force on the harmful effects on war. This requires looking beyond the law, in social, diplomatic, and political forums to push for better protection for those vulnerable in conflict. This imperative is particularly acute with respect to using lethal force against medical units and transports like ambulances, where getting things wrong causes unnecessary suffering to those who are the most vulnerable in conflict."

This is not a genocide. You should not use such a word so lightly and incorrectly. The population of Gaza and both Palestinian territories has risen steadily over the years, which is literally the opposite of a genocide.

The civilian collateral casualties would not be happening if Hamas would let them leave after Israel drops the leaflets and texts them to warn about upcoming bombings in advance. Hamas is the only party that wants all the Palestinian civilian deaths (for PR).

Hamas openly declaring its aim to kill all Jews, that would be genocide.

The most discriminated against group in the Middle East is actually Christians whose population has decreased from 20% to just 4%, that sounds like a genocide.

Yes I saw that professor from Galway. I thought it was Prime Time but you are correct. He was superb. He cut through the muddied water with ease.