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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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    #27692
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I've family members who would lap that drivel up and ask for seconds. In Ireland. It's depressing.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #27693
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344308#Comment_121344308

    When you think of the many disgusting things that Trump has said about people over the last 8 years, and the pain he's caused to people and their families, it really is beyond belief that people are still lapping that nonsense up.



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    #27694
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,357 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    As this article shows, it's not about the GOP vote, it's about the Democrats turning out to vote. This is what happened this week in elections:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/08/democrat-state-election-result-biden-poll-new-york-times




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    #27695
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344308#Comment_121344308

    They really have destroyed the word "Patriot" haven't they?

    "Patriot" now just evokes visions of mis-informed idiots frothing at the mouth over some bizarre conspiracy theory instead of what it should mean.



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    #27696
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,415 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1722423645761638666?s=20

    The first and last time I'll agree with Sarah Lectern Sanders....



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    #27697
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,361 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Trumpery is normal?



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    #27698
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,500 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341684#Comment_121341684

    I think complacency is a huge issue. This election reminds me of the 1990 Irish presidential election. Mary Robinson was selected by the Labour party 6-9 months prior and campaigned away. She got so far ahead of the FG candidate Austin Curry that he failed to close the gab and one slip by Lenihan handed it to her.

    Trump is campaigning away building up a lead. The Democrats are starting to fight amount themselves over Gaza. If they do not get there sh!t together this is lost. Biden looks old and the American people may worry voting for him.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #27699
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,361 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Maybe America needs to hit rock bottom with Trump and be obliged to gradually rebuild into a more rational society. It could take decades but probably that amount of time is needed to remove the hubris that is in US society at present.



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    #27700
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Rawr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344450#Comment_121344450

    I feel that this is key to everything.

    Voter apathy (and a hatred for Clinton) gave 2016 to Trump at the end of the day. A high turnout and a desire to get Trump out of office kicked him out in 2020. The same can happen again 2024, but the vote really needs to get out to ensure that Trump loses.

    The votes this week gives me some hope that there enough level-headed Americans out there who haven't the patience for Trump or his MAGA nitwits. Despite any disappointment there might be with Biden, at least Trump is doing an excellent job of reminding moderate voters of how insufferable he would be if in office again.



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    #27701
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,438 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345268#Comment_121345268

    Trump is building a lead, and all the polls say Trump is the favourite.

    And yet every time there is an election the MAGA's get their arse handed to them?

    What should we believe, the elections or the propaganda?



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    #27702
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Rawr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345361#Comment_121345361

    The very last thing we need is the most heavily armed nation in the world desending into a dysfunctional evangelical kleptocracy with an childish narcisist as their "King". America hitting a "Rock Bottom" caused by Trump would be a very serious threat to Western Democracy. Sure, American hubris does need to be taken down a few notches, but not this way.



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    #27703
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,438 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341761#Comment_121341761

    The Trump Organization is a group of about 500 business entities of which Donald Trump used to be the sole or principal owner, before he was found guilty of fraud and the organisation served with the corporate death penalty.

    If you are going to copy and paste from Wikipedia then best to include everything.



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    #27704
    ronjo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭ronjo


    Last night he said Kim Jon-un is the leader of China......He is going downhill so fast.



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    #27705
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,335 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345422#Comment_121345422

    Well, Clinton and Biden were both favourite to beat Trump, so...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #27706
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,695 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345070#Comment_121345070

    Honestly, I know that we in Ireland had romanticised the word patriot as part of the foundational myth of the state.

    But?

    Samuel Johnson, more often famous for his Dictionary than his political essays, was right when he opined "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel".

    Mayhaps or own crops of revolutionaries over the course of our quest for independence are the exception that proves that rule, but in a state not under occupation or invasion? The refrain of any party as being Patriots? Must be questioned and opposed, or?

    You end up with the GOP or Likud and even worse.



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    #27707
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Former first lady and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the wreckage from another Trump presidency would be “almost unimaginable” and likened the former president who beat her in the 2016 election to Adolf Hitler.

    In an interview on ABC’s “The View,” Clinton said when she was secretary of State, she saw people who would “get legitimately elected” and then would try “to do away with elections and do away with opposition.”

    “You could see it in countries where, well, Hitler was duly elected, right?” Clinton said. “And so all of a sudden somebody with those tendencies, so dictatorial authoritarian tendencies, would be like, OK, we’re going to shut this down.”

    “Trump is telling us what he intends to do,” Clinton continued. “Take him at his word.”

    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4300089-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-2024-election-adolf-hitler-was-duly-elected/

    I find it hard to disagree. Hitler attempted a coup, got the lightest sentence possible and then returned to destroy democracy. The American right aren't going to allow Trump's abject lack of intelligence hinder them this time. They've been busy drawing up blueprints for policies and recruiting loyal and committed MAGA staffers. It will be nothing like the farce we got the first time.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #27708
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Yep. As you and so many other have said here, voter apathy is what's going to get him in if he gets in. GOP voters WILL vote. As is their right. As they SHOULD. GQP voters WILL vote (Sometimes more than once as their own investigation proved). And it is their right to vote (once) and they SHOULD vote. But, historically, there is an apathy among people who would vote Democrat. And, IMHO, if you believe in a cause (Right or left, up or down, in or out) and you have the right to vote on this and don't, then you are in effect voting against your opinion. I mentioned before that I was at Glastonbury when the Brexit results came in. People had the ability to vote from there even. As you can imagine, such a crowd would have mainly voted remain. To say everyone was stunned is an understatement. It was the only time I found the buzz to be bad there. I remember asking people there in conversation "God, that's a surprise result. Did ya vote yerself?" "No, I didn't think it would ever happen" or "No, it was a pain in the ass getting to the voting booth" or simply "Naaaaaaah" So if you can vote but don't vote then you have no right to complain... or boast

    So yeah, as obvious as it sounds, if the Dems don't come out and vote, he WILL get in and they'll have nobody to blame but themselves. Not trump, not the GQP but themselves.



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    #27709
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345590#Comment_121345590

    A lot of this is just nonsense. Of course, it is importanet that people should vote but blaming the Dems for what America's Nazis want to do is just disingenuous.

    Also, nobody could vote from Glastonbury. You have to vote near your address here or do it by post.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #27710
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345268#Comment_121345268

    I don't think you can reasonably compare any other sober election - especially one as ambassadorial as our own Presidential election - with the American on. Especially as we're now at a point where it's less "fool me once", than it is "here we go for a third time". Trump is probably the most Known Quantity in American politics for the last 20+ years and never overestimate the DEmocrat or American Left's ability to tear itself to shreds - but still coalesce when it needs to. And while literally any other centrist, Republican candidate might take advantage of that typical disharmony, since November 2020, Trump has headed a quasi-coup and has only got more chaotic and rambling as a persona - and thats before the reality of his legal problems only growing from now.

    As was mentioned, Romney was leading in the Polls til he wasn't; heck Hillary Clinton was leading almost every credible poll then ... well, ya know. All this happened. Polls have value, undoubtedly, but in this case I don't think we can ascribe too much worry at this juncture, or concern that the Left won't hold their nose for Biden. They know what's at stake, and even with Biden at the helm have seen retrograde societal events like Roe v. Wade occur - events you can put at the feet of Trump. There'll be no complacency with a wannabe King floating about still.

    Biden's age is a problem - and there's no escaping that. You'd get one more term out of him but that's that. And what happens if an even more ailing Trump decides to run in 2028? Barring death or jail I can't imagine why he wouldn't.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345361#Comment_121345361

    I agree in principle, but a competent and sober America off the geopolitical playing board would be a total disaster for world politics, society and the economy. By all accounts it looks like a Trump v2 would have a cabinet filled with the extremist / lunatic dregs who kept hold of Trump's coattails through the years; there are very few adults from 2016+ left.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


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    #27711
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345070#Comment_121345070

    The last refuge of the scoundrel.



    *Edit...what Banie01 said 😁



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    #27712
    ghostfacekilla
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ghostfacekilla


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345590#Comment_121345590

    There's a lot to be said for the Australian model of being legally obliged to vote, with a fine for those who don't. There are enough people currently and historically dying and who have died for the right to vote. A right, but also a privilege.



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    #27713
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346068#Comment_121346068

    Fining people who don't vote is an appalling idea.



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    #27714
    ghostfacekilla
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ghostfacekilla


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346097#Comment_121346097

    As of January 2023, 21 countries have compulsory voting laws. The ancient Greeks were fans of the compulsory vote. There's pros and cons, like a lot of things but my opinion is that the pros outweigh the cons. There's one thing for sure, you wouldn't have to listen to anyone complaining about the state of the country who havn't voted in the last half dozen elections.



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    #27715
    scottser
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scottser


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346126#Comment_121346126

    ompulsory voting only works if options include a 'none of the above' box.



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    #27716
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346148#Comment_121346148

    Also only really works if there's some form of PR in use.

    In FPTP , a lot of people have no incentive to vote a lot of the time because their vote is essentially worthless.

    With PR you can make sure your vote actually means something.



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    #27717
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,607 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Also important that any form of compulsory voting is entirely reliant on making sure there can be no voter suppression, which means ensuring voters have enough time off work to go and vote, there are enough election centers and the voter register does its best to ensure everyone is registered and able to vote with ID.

    That will never work in America, because freedom.



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    #27718
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Also, nobody could vote from Glastonbury. You have to vote near your address here or do it by post.


    Well not "from" Glastonbury festival itself, but was plenty of opportunities to make a postal vote which is what I registered for as soon as I noticed the dates clashed. Whilst I'd not bothered voting on some occasions before, it was that topic which got me properly motivated to ensure that I did each chance since.



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    #27719
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346126#Comment_121346126

    I don't care how many countries have compulsory voting. It's still an appalling idea and there are no "pros" in forcing people to vote. It's a terrible principle full stop. Imagine if on the ballot there's a choice between a Hitler and a Mussolini figure and you find yourself fined because you couldn't bring yourself to vote for one or the other?

    Casting your vote for a party or a politician should ALWAYS be a choice, and an informed one at that. In fact, there's times when I would prefer if some ignoramuses refrained from giving their X entirely.

    In addition, ANYONE who pays taxes in a country has a right to complain about the state of that country if they have something to complain about. Just because they didn't vote for the giant douche or the shit sandwich doesn't mean a thing.


    As an aside, people need to be very careful when the conjure up the "Ancient Greeks" in a discussion about voting. Not all Greek city states approved of voting. In fact most of the them didn't. Some of them were oligarchical or outright tyrannies. In Athens there was encouragement to vote and to take part in government. But in reality only a selected few had any real say because there was limited citizenship at play and power remained in the hands of a relatively small group.



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    #27720
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346232#Comment_121346232

    That's what the poster explicitly said.

    It was a disingenuous attempt to pin the blame for Brexit and Trump on people who didn't vote instead of the malevolent idiots who voted for them.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #27721
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346265#Comment_121346265

    Casting your vote for a party or a politician should ALWAYS be a choice, and an informed one at that. In fact, there's times when I would prefer if some ignoramuses refrained from giving their X entirely.

    I suppose with 20+ countries using mandatory voting, the question might be to explore what kind of governance that has resulted in. The only one I can think of - and even then I might be mistaken - is Belgium? We can reasonably speculate about the overall flaws of FPTP as a voting method among others, and how that can lead to more minority-led governments; where that has caused rot in various countries' enfranchisement etc. ... but can the same extrapolation be done with Mandatory Voting?

    I do think there's a way you can enforce voting while being fair about it, starting with the ability to spoil or have None Of the Above to use your example of a choice between dictators - IIRC that's how "voters" wielded some power in the USSR, by basically spoiling their votes for the sole candidate - but the main problem in all this of course is that America's system isn't remotely fair, as @Penn alluded to. Jim Crow is alive and well, albeit rebadged and more sneaky than before - mandatory voting in Ameirca would be a disaster 'cos they'd make sure it would be. It could work here, cos above all else our voting system is fair and balanced - not so America.



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