Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Is everything IDF is doing justified?

Will Israel release its civilian hostages also?

Stop with all those facts, the antisemite accusations will be coming soon..

I pointed out that the current Home Secretary in the UK has a husband who lived in Israel and "is a proud Zionist and has close family serving in the IDF". I mentioned that her demonisation of the Pro-Palestine marches and clear incitement would in any other world be considered bias. I was told she was a cnut most of the time and I only pointed out the glaring conflict of interest because he was Jewish.

They won't be overly bothered. I posted earlier about them posting articles and headlines that the casual observer glancing at it would come away thinking that any trouble was associated with the Free Palestine march.

The standard posted an image of the Ceasefire march with text referring to trouble at the Cenotaph. They didn't clarify the two things weren't connected.

The Daily Mail posted a headline that said, Trouble with police as people descend on capital for marches for Palestine.

Rishi Sunak's press release this evening did the same thing, equated the troublesome elements associated with both marches as being comparable even though the Far right march was where the trouble occurred.

They're old hats at this, they're not going to let little things like objectivity impact the narrative they've already written.

I sense though that they, the Tories and Israel supporters are losing the PR battle (and know full well they are losing it). Very little active support for Israel out there, apart from the usual right wing crank commentators, and indications that public sympathy is very largely with the Palestinians. It's rumoured that even many Tory MPs are unhappy with Sunak and Braverman's pro-Israel posturing.

I get the feeling that when Biden says that there all be no ceasefire, it's not because the US administration wants one, it's because the Israeli government doesn't give two ****. He arrived out there and came away with nothing in terms of deescalation the conflict, himself and Blinken have been told to take a long walk off a short plank.

Arms being sent to Ukraine are subject to restrictions on use, can't invade Russia etc. None of these are in place with Israel and the deals are long standing. I wonder if the recent announcement of more supplies is related to prior agreements rather than genuine sentiment, although there are plenty of war hawks and people lobbied in the US to throw their weight behind it.

Much like labour in the UK this conflict is going to cause a massive rift in the Democratic party and on the eve of an election. They'll be handing it to Trump or whatever troglodyte gets the nomination and that could continue to prolong the war.

Anyone going against the Israeli line and calling for diplomacy is on the receiving end of some very undiplomatic language.

They simply dont give a **** what anyone thinks and clearly nobody wants to consider sanctions or embargoes. What is happening elsewhere is just as bad but there's less sway with western nations as they aren't directly funding the ethnic cleansing in Sudan, war in Yemen, genocide of Uygur and all the other atrocities occurring.

I honestly do believe this could be the unravelling of bodies like the UN and it certainly paints the west in a bad light, China is waiting in the wing to offer solutions where the supposedly moral west doesn't and that's terrifying.

I mean I wouldn't personally wear an Irish jersey to a Tommy Robinson demonstration because that's an invitation to trouble. It's also common sense.

But wearing a jersey is a fashion choice, or a political choice if I chose to wear it to such a rally. Being gay, lesbian, trans, whatever, is neither.

Being openly LGBT, even in the most subtle sense, in Palestine (and most muslim countries) is not really possible.

It's irrelevant crap to deflect from the murder of civilians.

It keeps getting repeated on here about gay rights in Gaza as if that somehow justifies blowing the sh1te out of an apartment block of Palestinian families. The same posters don't seem quite as animated by the fact that gay people cannot legally get married in Israel.

They didnt all vote for Hamas.

And the babies and children that cant vote, certainly didnt.

Nobody is denying that terrible things have been done by Hamas.

But Hamas isnt all of Palestine.

I think thats broadly the external observers view.

Babies don't do any of these things.

4000+ children destroyed by IDF weaponry.

There's no current evidence there's anything under these hospitals.

So much othering in one post, it would make Hannity blush.

I don't know why people bring up homophobia like Bibi is mass murdering journalists, women and children for women and gay rights, etc.

Bibi and other Israeli leaders don't even hide their genocidal agenda in their rhetoric anymore. Even world-renowned Israeli Holocaust Genocide experts have alerted as much.

Bibi held a mock funeral for Rabin. Swears he had nothing to do with the assassination. Just celebrated it. Like he fixed the world cup.

What is "the reality of the Israeli state?" That it's top-heavy with corrupt right-wing nationalists with outwardly genocidal aims?

one who's been told to eliminate all palestinians.

let's not fool ourselves here. what's currently happening is genocide.

In Israel, there’s a lot of support for settlements, and this is why there have been right-wing governments for so many years. The world, especially the United States, thinks there is an option for a Palestinian state, and, if we continue to build communities, then we block the option for a Palestinian state. We want to close the option for a Palestinian state, and the world wants to leave the option open. It’s a very simple thing to understand.

..

Where should the Palestinians in Gaza go?

To Sinai, to Egypt, to Turkey.

They’re not Egyptian or Turkish, though. Why would they go to Turkey?

O.K. The Ukrainians are not French, but when the war started they went to many countries.

Their country was being bombed, and so many of them fled west.

And Gazan people are dying to go to other places.

I think Ukrainians wanted to go to Europe because they didn’t want to get bombed.

And the Gazan people want to get bombed by us?

Maybe one option, rather than bombing them, would be to help try and develop a society for them in Gaza, right?

O.K., I wish you luck. Go ahead. Go for it.

..

You said, "Settlement is the way to return to Zion”?

Yes. It’s the end of the dispersion and the beginning of the revival of the Jewish nation in this homeland.

What are the borders of that Jewish nation?

The borders of the homeland of the Jews are the Euphrates in the east and the Nile in the southwest. [This would include the territory of multiple Middle Eastern countries as well as the territory that Israel controls today.]

..

We saw some horrible images on October 7th of what happened to Israeli children, and now we see some horrible images in Gaza of what is happening to Palestinian children. When you see Palestinian children dying, what’s your emotional reaction as a human being?

I go by a very basic human law of nature. My children are prior to the children of the enemy, period. They are first. My children are first.

We are talking about children. I don’t know if the law of nature is what we need to be looking at here.

Yeah. I say my children are first.

..

The whole interview is nuts. And it isn't some loon. The fact 600,000 Israelis have settled in the West Bank, and this is somehow socially acceptable, says a lot about Israel as a population and their views.

It is unconscionable that any Western nation is supporting a country that is settling an already populated area. They condemn it a few months ago but now send billions for arms while blocking ceasefires for humanitarian aid.

Is anything Hamas has done justified?