Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I'm much more cynical I'm afraid.

This is almost exactly the same as things were in 2003 with respect to the War on Terror. I thought then that surely governments would react to what the sentiment of the public clearly was but it had little to no impact. I was sure in the 2004 election in the US that George Bush would be beaten but he was returned. This Tory government is done for but we've seen Starmer pretty much in lock step with Sunak in terms of the conflict in Gaza. There's not going to be any massive change there whenever Labour come to power.

Macron has called for a ceasefire today, that's significant, he is quite influential still on the diplomatic stage but I fear that the US actually wants the conflict to continue given Biden's immediate dismissal of any hope of a ceasefire yesterday. Nethanyahu has already come out to say that Macron is making a moral mistake in calling for a ceasefire. Quite a provocative statement in itself.

Hezbollah and Lebanon military are completely different things.

Lebanon as a state and armed forces has zero interest in war with Israel.

Hezbollah is an army within a state. But it's not really equipped for conventional war, it's a massive paramilitary force. They have a lot of rockets but they don't have an air force, tank force, etc.

Even if it did decide to get involved in the war - which I doubt given they would take an incredible pounding - Hezbollah getting involved wouldn't mean Lebanon as a state was involved nor would the Lebanese armed forces get involved.

I find the repeated argument about Palestinian/muslim values compared to ours to just be an obvious attempt to say they’re different to us, so what’s happening to them isn’t as horrible as what happens to Israel, who are allegedly similar to us.

I don’t agree with any of that really and it has nothing to do with the current conflict.

I don’t agree with Muslim principles on a lot of things but that doesn’t mean that they’re not people.

They voted for Hamas.

They harbour terrorists like 'The Guest', so called as he stays at a different Palestinian home each night

They indoctrinate children into terrorism. A Palestinian school book leaked online shows how they teach young children to become "heros" like Dalal Mughrabi (I don't remember covering her on the Irish syllabus. Yet).

They are more anti-Semitic than the Nazis and more homophobic than Putin

They build terror cells under their own hospitals and use women and children as (very good politically, albeit not-at-all kinetically) effective human shields.

They support Hamas firing thousands of (some home made) rockets at Israel, knowing that some will fall short and land on Palestinians e.g. that hospital.

They help build thousands of tunnels for rockets, launching attacks and holding weapons and hostages. They have spent significant portions of their GDP on the tunnels alone, instead of building civilian infrastructure.

They do not seem to want to live in peace for long. Even the other Arab states do not take them in.

They live in the past, not just their Dark Ages views on women and LGBT people, but they literally live in the past, and do not seem to accept the reality of the Israeli state.

They support Hamas, who want to kill all the Jews, and others once that is done.

When Shani Louk, the 22 year old conscientious peace protestor was attacked at the music festival and murdered and seemingly raped by Hamas, they stripped her body naked and paraded her through the streets of Gaza on a pickup truck, and the Palestinian people cheered. Watch the video if you can face the truth, it's not just Hamas in the truck, it is all the people in the streets CELEBRATING! Celebrating like they won the world cup.They usually seem so angry in Gaza, so this is what they celebrate: the beautiful, broken, defiled, naked body of a dying young girl who is being gruesomely violated live online for the whole world to see, so they can show their work to her mother and family.

Still think Gaza is like Northern Ireland?

Still think it's a good idea to be on the same side as THAT!?

Have you ever been wrong before? It's not too late yet.

Totally agree with that analysis. The Dem split over supporting Palestine could potentially split their vote and Trump could win by default. Also unimaginable before the war.

Trump was always likley to win the election.

I don't think anyone is saying everyone in Gaza voted for Hamas.

But polling has shown continued strong support for Hamas in Gaza.

They haven't held elections in the West Bank because it would likely result in Hamas taking power.

It is what it is. But pretending that Hamas is nothing whatsoever to do with the civilian populace of Gaza/Palestine is disingenuous.

Pretending Hamas is the totality of Gaza Populace is also disingenuous.

The longer this goes on, the more the globe turns against Israel.

I am not saying that is right, but I do see that happening.

The average person, with no skin in the game, now sees Israel as the aggressor.

Was that Hamas' strategy from the start?

40% are children.

Rumors of them having enough rockets to take down Iron Dome.

Baaligh, it's akin to the confirmation or bar mitzvah. Either way, they're still children whatever way you want to try and justify it to yourself.

It was a rhetorical response to a rhetorical question. Are 'people' justifying it, yes. Western politicians, not as far as I know.

Indoctrination works both ways. This video from 10 years ago shows Israeli kids wanting to be in the army and killing Arabs. I imagine a lot of them are military age now.

Do you mean overwhelm it with the amount of rockets they could fire? Also are you talking about Dief when you mention the "guest"?

Edit: Sorry it was another poster that referred to the guest.