The Marvels - MCU

Foxtrol · 10-11-2023 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351952#Comment_121351952

Fully agree on not needing to see the other shows. Obviously you'd have more background to the characters but you don't miss much.

I'd argue that given some flashbacks that you could even go in without seeing the original Captain Marvel.

I think for many the 'feeling' that they are missing something key is often far, far bigger than anything they are missing out on in reality. This tends coming from people, like that guy from Twitter, who got every reference in the past when they watched everything and it now annoys them that they are experiencing the movie like the majority of the general audience have since day 1.

Agent Coulson · 10-11-2023 9:35pm

It is a kids movie and I totally enjoyed it and yes it has flaws however it's one major plus for me is the runtime of just over 90 minutes so those flaws aren't dragged out for 2.5/3 hours.

Now I do think it helped that I had watched both Wandavision & Ms Marvel instead of going into it a cold to have the back story for two of the Marvels however it's not a major issue really if you hadn't seen those series.

The whole Khan family were the stars of it for me Disney/Marvel need to do more with them on Ms Marvel.

I said it before after watching Ms Marvel that Iman Vellani is a star and seeing her on the big screen lighting up every scene she is in just confirms that for me.

And of course the mid credit scene is a huge and major moment for the future of the MCU.

silverharp · 11-11-2023 8:21am

be interesting to see how the numbers will turn out this weekend, I had a quick look on the booking sites of Dundrum and the Point a few minutes before they started (8pm showings) and they only looked 1/6th booked, cant be a good sign as word of mouth isnt going to help the movie?

pjohnson · 11-11-2023 8:45am

I think this kinda reinforces the flaws with Larsen/Danvers that were highlighted by many in the original film but were wrongly dismissed as just being "misogyny".

She was outshone by both Velani/Kamala and Parris/Rambeau.

speedboatchase · 11-11-2023 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354096#Comment_121354096

https://deadline.com/2023/11/box-office-the-marvels-1235599363/

Lowest ever for the MCU.

11-11-2023 9:44am

Garbage but I wasn't expecting much. First MCU cinema experience. Can't believe they spent $270m on that rubbish. No wonder there was a strike. Joys of a limitless card. Although suppose it's for kids so maybe I'm being harsh.

ancapailldorcha · 11-11-2023 9:57am

This was quite dull. There was a 10pm showing yesterday at my local Cineworld and I struggled to pay attention or care for most of it. I don't think not seeing any of the Disney+ stuff was the issue. It's very, very formulaic. There's a few laughs and I'm a massive cat person so I had a lot of fun with one or two parts but on the whole this was a very weak film.

pixelburp · 11-11-2023 10:30am

The certain knowledge that these films will appear on Disney+ has to also factor into things: they're the least "cinematic" blockbusters around and the flaw of becoming long form cinema almost tangential to TV, is eventually people will simply realise there's no benefit in shelling out money for these things at the movies. Guardians 3 was maybe the last that justified that trip - all else post Endgame? Debatable, no matter how good the respective films are, are they worth €15, €20? It's an equation plaguing all of cinema ATM but it's most pronounced with the biggest game in town.

silverharp · 11-11-2023 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354394#Comment_121354394

thats a long way of saying the films are average- at best. The bar has been raised is true though, yet the success of the 2 big summer movies show that if you put out movies that capture the imagination, people will go to the cinema. What Marvel cant do is spend the bones of $300m on a non tent pole film and expect it to be a success, its designed to fail.

gmisk · 11-11-2023 12:54pm

I saw this morning, overall I kind of enjoyed it.

Much better than that awful recent ant-man film and that borderline unwatchable last Thor, but not close to being as good as the last guardians film. I would give it 6 out of 10.

Positives

Iman vellani, she is just terrific in the role, her family dynamic is lovely. The chemistry among the lead trio was excellent. Samuel L Jackson always solid. I like the look of it and the different sets/environments.

The runtime finally something not a massive bloated 2 hour plus runtime.

The villain was solid, Zawe Ashton was grand, not sure why she is getting a bit of a kicking, not a classic but decent.

Negatives

The story was a bit all over the shop, not to spoil anything but the section on the "water" planet was truly awful, like eye rolling bad, brutal. The story was also very simple really.

The cats/kitten Flerkens loved them ha ha. Post credit...actual X-Men (well one or two?)! That was definitely Kelsey Grammers voice.

Ms Marvel and Kate Bishop team up I am guessing setting up some kind of junior avengers type show? Will happily watch.

AMKC · 11-11-2023 1:06pm

I seem it yesterday. Only posting now because I was really mot well yesterday or last night and that did not help watching this film. The annoying family are back in it like in "Blue Beetle"and really was not in the mood for them it took me straight out of the film I even thought of leaving it a few times.

The best part of it really is the fight scenes at the end. Would I go see this film again? No unless I get to go see it for free and there is nothing else anygood to watch.

If I do go see it again I will be skipping the first 20 minutes as its truly awful.

Samuel Jackson was truly terrible in this he is giving bit parts so much so you don't even care what he is doing and it's most fmdefinitely a rang in performance by him.

I would only give this film a 5 out of 10. Its average at best.

Foxtrol · 11-11-2023 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354394#Comment_121354394

Agree with Disney+ playing a factor but I don't think much evidence really points to a lack of 'justification' to go see MCU movies post Endgame.

Just looking post COVID, MCU has 2 of the top 10 grossing movies this year, 3 of top 8 last year, 3 of top 11 the year before. Then Far from Home was 4th in 2019. The majority of all of these are front loaded, as the audience are eager to see it first, FOMO, and likely to avoid spoilers - that is the the core of their justification rather than movie quality.

MCU appear to have broken this with the Marvels, due to factors both in and out of their control, and that is now a dangerous place to be for them and you can tell they're worried given their pause.

pixelburp · 11-11-2023 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355079#Comment_121355079

Far from home was only 4th? Honestly that's very surprising given what that film offered through its 3 spideys I'd have surely put that number 1. I'd also like to know what the projections were for the various films cos There's more to success than box office after all, especially relative to expected patterns. DC's retooling of the Synderverse started cos batman v superman "underperformed" despite a 900 million box office; not that Warners' ongoing maniacal behaviour is a great benchmark either, but it speaks to how pure numbers can't tell the whole story WRT Hollywood.

The Marvels failing might only crystallise a stuttering since EndGame, albeit one with a hitherto uncertain sense of box office failure. But audiences won't follow lukewarm or poor offerings forever either, especially if as I say, you're paying for the film already by way of the Disney sub. This film failing will certainly bring out the obituaries quick enough, rightly or wrongly.

Undoubtedly there's bias from my PoV given as I was al set to go to To this but stopped, precisely because Disney+ will have it soon enough.

Agent Coulson · 11-11-2023 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355416#Comment_121355416

Endgame was number 1 in 2019.

No way home had the 3 in 2021.

Penn · 11-11-2023 4:04pm

Have to admit, I enjoyed it. It's definitely lower-mid tier of the MCU, but there was enough there to enjoy throughout, it didn't overstay its welcome, and maybe because my expectations have been lowered due to Love & Thunder and Quantumania but there was nothing egregiously wrong or annoying about the film either.

It definitely has its flaws. There's f*ck all lead-in for people who haven't seen Ms.Marvel and Wandavision (there's a bit for Ms.Marvel but mostly focuses on her infatuation with Carol rather than her powers/bangle, and just one throwaway line to explain what happened to Monica). There are huge holes in some bits (Kamala switches with Carol while in her Ms.Marvel outfit, then falls out of the sky in normal clothes, plus later in the film she uses her powers without having the bangles). And the villain is just Generic Villain Ver.28. I also think Sam Jackson went too comedic, and Brie Larson too stoic. The singing planet was also a decent idea on paper but annoying on film.

That said, I enjoyed the three Marvels for the most part. A lot of the swapping was really well done and made for interesting set pieces, and ultimately the good parts of the film pretty much all centre around Iman Vellani, who is just absolutely terrific in everything she does. The end scenes both give something to look forward to as well.

So yeah, not one of the worst MCU films, but not even nearly a great one either.

That said, after leaving the cinema last night I couldn't help think; I wish this had been a TV show and Loki Season 2 had been a movie.

pixelburp · 11-11-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355560#Comment_121355560

Shoot. I was thinking of No Way Home. Man those names have always tripped me up;

StevenToast · 11-11-2023 4:12pm

Marvel need to stop making movies and tv shows for about 10 years.....

Fùck me even fans of this shìt are sick of it.....

Penn · 11-11-2023 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355602#Comment_121355602

I'd say there'll almost definitely be a reboot of sorts after Secret Wars. Though of course they won't want to announce that or else they'll end up like the last year of DCEU films where people don't care because the entire DCEU is going to be rebooted.

Foxtrol · 11-11-2023 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355416#Comment_121355416

Agree with the lukewarm part - there has been too much of that, though I strongly disagree when people say everything or even the majority since EndGame falls into that bucket.

I don't think The Marvels is a good bell weather for where the MCU is because in my opinion it is suffering more than most movies due to the strikes. Given that unfortunately a decent proportion of people simply do not like female action leads it was always fighting uphill. They really needed the actresses out to push it in the media to get casual female audience to go - the effect that happened for the first Captain Marvel and Barbie.

Having said that, though the movie will undeservedly be the first real failure for the MCU, it is for the best. Think Marvel has finally realised they can't go in with lukewarm movies with their B, C, or even D tier characters and get big returns.

speedboatchase · 11-11-2023 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355655#Comment_121355655

It's over. Infinity War and Endgame were a once in a lifetime, decade in the making cultural zeitgeist moment. You can't start over and expect people to re-invest. This decade will be about something else. Most likely video game adaptations.

ancapailldorcha · 11-11-2023 6:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355655#Comment_121355655

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355887#Comment_121355887

Do they expect people to just turn up as the same old stories and characters are just recast and rehashed? I think Infinity War and Endgame were the perfect points to call it a day - a massive finale with everyone turning up and contributing. To go from that to by the numbers stuff like The Marvels is a bit deflating. As people move on from Marvel, it's going to be impossible to capture the same energy from new characters and cast members.

Penn · 11-11-2023 6:28pm

Oh it'll not be as successful, but there is now a spreading feeling that the MCU isn't what it was and likely won't be again, Marvel have lost a lot of their big characters, and actors will continue to drop out as they've put in their time already.

So MCU will probably do what tends to happen in comics; a quasi-reboot where they can recast roles or things that fans haven't liked, integrate it with new characters they now have the rights to that they didn't before, and try to recapture what was essentially lightning in a bottle.

pjohnson · 11-11-2023 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356079#Comment_121356079

When the mutants arrive we likely wont see too much of this phase of characters anyway so recasts really arent even necessary.

Foxtrol · 11-11-2023 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356001#Comment_121356001

People have continued to go to MCU movies - again and again being in the annual top box office. They just made a bit of mess of the move onto the next big overarching story, big part out of their control.

Many are dying to see X-Men on big screen again under Marvel control. It might never get to Endgame levels but they continue to make good money and satisfy audiences for many years to come.

ancapailldorcha · 12-11-2023 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121356885#Comment_121356885

How is it out of their control when Marvel own the characters and employ the cast, the writers, the directors, etc?

Nobody is dying to see the X-Men on screen. A lot of people would go but nobody is "dying" to see that now when so many of the original cast of both the MCU and the X-Men films have stepped down.

pixelburp · 12-11-2023 9:43am

The arrival of the X-Men will be eagerly awaited, it's just a question about how eagerly awaited they are. I've read a weirdly desperate, hopeful belief the X-Men are gonna be the shot in the arm for the MCU; that when they arrive all will be well again. That's a lot of hype and expectation and it'll remain to be seen how effective they'll be

Penn · 12-11-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357422#Comment_121357422

I don't know about "dying", but certainly having the MCU doing a new version of the X-Men, given how shaky Fox's treatment of them was, would definitely be something to look forward to. I imagine we might get the likes of Jackman, Stewart and even Kelsey Grammer as Beast up until Secret Wars, but after that they'd either have to recast or focus on different X-Men. Stewart is aging gracefully but he's over 80 now. Jackman is likely only coming back as a favour to Reynolds and one last MCU payday, and I like Grammer's performance as Beast but the CGI of him felt a bit off during the post credits of the Marvels, I'd rather they just recast all the X-Men and start from scratch.

The MCU getting all the rights back from Fox, and the Netflix characters, is definitely something to look forward to, as they were missing some big names throughout. I'd be excited to see what the MCU could do with them following Secret Wars. It'll almost certainly be centered around X-Men and the Fantastic Four

Brief_Lives · 12-11-2023 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357725#Comment_121357725

rumours that Tom Holland signed on for 6 new projects, a spiderman trilogy and 3 others, probably avengers/daredevil.

speedboatchase · 12-11-2023 1:19pm

The problem is that the X-Men never really went away. You can still see Hugh Jackman as Wolverine next summer. Also, the uniqueness of the X-Men story as a parallel for civil rights struggles and discrimination is not a fit for a world in where gods and aliens already exist.

pixelburp · 12-11-2023 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357829#Comment_121357829

I'll be curious cos Holland seems to have diversified his portfolio of late; I'd not be surprised if he's done with the MCU. Or else taking a break.

ancapailldorcha · 12-11-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357725#Comment_121357725

That's fair enough. I just think that Infinity War and Endgame were once in a generation cinematic events and that that's always going to be the high point for Marvel. I've no idea what Secret Wars is. It may well be very, very good but the MCU isn't far off being 20 years old. It can't stay fresh and relevant forever.

Mitch Connor · 12-11-2023 2:11pm

I like it. First half was better than the second half. The theme around one location I didn't like at all. But thought it did rs over from the to a decent degree.

Thought it was funny and engaging, leads were all good. Training montage was fun. Enjoyed the cat stuff too.

pixelburp · 12-11-2023 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121358315#Comment_121358315

I think that's it. EndGame was seismic and arguably the biggest pop culture event since Star Wars - and the series should have stopped there. A 10 year pause and at most the TV shows could have kept the flavour in people's mouths without saturating the palette.

I hadn't realised just how invested I had become in the MCU until I said goodbye to the various Phase 1 mainstays during the Victory Lap that was much of EndGame; it felt like an end of things, the closing of the book with side stories continuing elsewhere. But call it hubris or miscalculation, the Variety article clearly shows the post Endgame decisions have been the wrong ones.

Foxtrol · 12-11-2023 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357422#Comment_121357422

The impact of COVID, the writers/actors strike, and the death of Boseman are absolutely out of their control. The first two have had a huge impact on the entire industry but the MCU feel it even more due to the interconnectedness of that larger story.

Fans are absolutely dying to see X-Men back again. Look at the impact of Professor X showing up or the mere mention of mutant in Ms Marvel. It is questionable how enthusiastic the wider public are, however X-Men have historically been one of the best known comics and we've seen how well Spider-man has done since being brought into the MCU.

ancapailldorcha · 12-11-2023 6:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121358981#Comment_121358981

You keep saying people are "dying" for it but I see no indication that that's the case. Sure, it'll put a few bums on seats but that's about it. The MCU can't have the same impact that it had years ago because it's lost too many people and Marvel are just doing the same thing over and over again. The X-Men won't change that.

Slutmonkey57b · 12-11-2023 8:37pm

Even Deadpool only had a 1 film run. The second was a lazy mess and I've no interest whatsoever in seeing Jackman return, and I've got a copy of The Wolverine on dvd. The last 2 "first class" cast films were duds. People are no more clamouring for more xmen films than they are for an umpteenth reintroduction of the fantastic 4.

ancapailldorcha · 12-11-2023 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359868#Comment_121359868

I liked both Deadpools I have to say. X-Men is very hit or miss compared to the MCU as a whole. The Last Stand, Dark Phoenix and Apocalypse are abysmal. I couldn't care less if the characters return to the big screen or not. I'd say most people have more or less forgotten about them at this point. Dark Phoenix came out nearly 5 years ago.

techdiver · 12-11-2023 8:57pm

Saw it today. Very poor across the board. Another terrible villain. Useless plot. Really lazy stuff.

Can't believe it's sitting at 62 on RT. Beggers belief.

Brief_Lives · 12-11-2023 9:00pm

The villian is Loki's fiancé

Foxtrol · 12-11-2023 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121359244#Comment_121359244

Are you complaining about semantics of the word 'dying'?

I never said it will get to the same levels as Endgame - that is a moment in time that isn't coming back.

Putting 'bums on seats' is literally what we're talking about so you're agreeing with me.

ancapailldorcha · 12-11-2023 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360058#Comment_121360058

Well, no. You said that people desperately wanted more of the X-Men but there's no indication that that's the case. Marvel may get a bit of a boost by trotting them out again and recasting most of them but that's all it'll be - a small boost in viewership figures.

Foxtrol · 12-11-2023 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360072#Comment_121360072

Again, saying that they be a boost to the MCU is accepting my point.

Fans do want to see them. Every time there is any mention of them in the MCU there is huge buzz. What more do you want? Do you have any evidence to support your opinion?

ancapailldorcha · 12-11-2023 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360112#Comment_121360112

If you want to play the evidence card, you'll have to go first. I want to see hard proof that people are dying for this.

Brief_Lives · 12-11-2023 9:22pm

I'm dying to see them. i grew up reading these comics. seeing this stuff in the cinema is brilliant.

so if you are counting, we might be a while.

Foxtrol · 12-11-2023 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360121#Comment_121360121

Well my first piece of evidence is how you keep agreeing with me that there will be a boost for the MCU when they come in - exactly what I'm saying.

Then I've already said to look at the online buzz - when they faked Quicksilver in Wandavision, when they used Prof X as a core part of their late push to sell MoM, when they used the term mutant in Ms Marvel, now the mid credit scene in this movie, and next year bringing Logan into Deadpool.

If fans weren't interested in seeing them there would be zero buzz and Marvel wouldnt be using them like they are.

Now you show where there is a lack of interest.

ancapailldorcha · 12-11-2023 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360226#Comment_121360226

I'm not doing your research for you. You've provided no evidence so let's just leave it there.

pixelburp · 12-11-2023 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360245#Comment_121360245

To be fair ancapaill I'm not sure how you "prove" online buzz. it's definitely there, the X-Men are Marvel's biggest IP, or were anyway before the MCU came along making use of the characters Sony didn't have (IE Spider-Man and the X-Men). Not without reason they're making a new series of the 1990s X-Men cartoon, making use of the lingering enthusiasm for the old series. How far that enthusiasm goes for is the debatable point though cos I'm not sure: younger audiences will have grown up with the MCU stable and may not have the fondness for Jena Grey, Professor X et Al - so it's hard to judge.

ancapailldorcha · 12-11-2023 9:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360325#Comment_121360325

Sure but their cinematic appearances are far from consistently high quality. Their star has waned since because, for rights reasons, the MCU has had to put other characters front and centre and now has a very broad roster. Too broad one could say. The best way to gauge interest would be to gauge how well this series does. I'd no idea they were even making one.

Foxtrol · 12-11-2023 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360245#Comment_121360245

Ah you did all the research that I need, given that you've repeatedly agreed that bringing in the X-Men will give a boost to the MCU - my original claim.

Your whole disagreement appears to be purely pointless semantics so very happy for you to leave it there.

Penn · 12-11-2023 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360368#Comment_121360368

I think you're both essentially coming at the same point from different angles; it's not that people are excited about the X-Men in the MCU because of how great the Fox movies were (because they weren't, they've been far more miss than hit, didn't do most of the characters or stories justice, and the high highs don't balance out the dreadful lows). People are excited to have the X-Men in the MCU because it's a new chance to get the X-Men done right as well as having them interact with the wider MCU, plus using the X-Men as a way to fill the holes left by the loss of some bigger characters.

There was definitely a lot of excitement when Disney took over Fox and Marvel therefore got the film rights back to the X-Men and Fantastic Four. Regardless of what happens with Jackman & Stewart, the MCU has a great chance to do something new with the X-Men, and a lot of fans would have more faith in them than if Fox were still trying to churn out X-Men films

The Marvels - MCU

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