A Woke Society? **Mod Warning In Post #435**

Your obtuse misrepresentation of obvious correlations and disingenuous representation of misleading facts doesn't convince anyone.

Men have high rates of suicide and it is emotional closedness which is the strongest warning for high risk of suicide in men.

Groups who experience alienation and rejection from society because of personal difference also experience high rates of suicide.The solution to this is not to impose or expect more heteronormal behaviour but for society to be more accepting of individual difference.

It's not an either/or situation and no one claimed it was. You think been a type of male makes you superior, but what the reality is it makes you far more vunerable to depression and self harm.

There is plenty of academic studies showing the correlation. The fact that this type of masculinity is no longer a sellable commodity or a wife winner just makes the pressures of been a toxic males worse.

We already explained that you can't possibly know for a fact that suicide rates were lower, yet here we still are.

More so why toxic masculinity is merely an excuse for some for a moan about things they don't like about men.

Having a problem with some things men do doesn't equate to masculinity being toxic. It's just that person having a moan.

I demonstrated it earlier in the thread by way of providing evidence which contradicts Shoog’s narrative of meany men who can’t get a woman, etc, which he ascribes to toxic masculinity. That’s simply not the case when you look at the figures -

In line with previous research, the NSDUH data showed that rates of all three suicide-related behaviors — thoughts, plans, attempts — were generally higher among lesbian, gay, and bisexual adults than among heterosexual adults. After taking demographic factors into account, the researchers found that suicide risk was three to six times greater for lesbian, gay, and bisexual adults than for heterosexual adults across every age group and race/ethnicity category. Among gay and bisexual men, 12% to 17% had thought about taking their lives in the past year, 5% had made a suicide plan, and about 2% had made a suicide attempt. Among lesbian or gay women and bisexual women, 11% to 20% had thoughts of suicide, 7% had made a suicide plan, and about 3% had made a suicide attempt. 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/researchers-find-disparities-suicide-risk-among-lesbian-gay-bisexual-adults

Shoog’s suggestion by way of addressing the higher rates of suicide among minorities is for greater social acceptance of what he called ‘personal differences’, and that requires acceptance of a belief in the concept of toxic masculinity and all the ideas that entails. If one rejects that belief, the implication is that they’re part of the problem.

That’s circular logic - present the problem, and if a person rejects the concept, they’re part of the problem. It’s an unhelpful paradigm which is more about promoting an ideology than addressing why the issue persists among the minority of people who die by suicide.

Then why say the phrase toxic masculinity if masculinity not toxic?

Would it not be more helpful to say toxic behaviours than attempting to conflate masculinity as something inherently toxic?

So you could have suicide ideation rates as high or close as LGBT in younger men, but it will be hidden within all hetrosexuals.

Are younger men distinct from the gay, bisexual and/or transgender demographic? I’m not certain why you’d focus on age-related demographics when the researchers accounted for that -

After taking demographic factors into account, the researchers found that suicide risk was three to six times greater for lesbian, gay, and bisexual adults than for heterosexual adults across every age group and race/ethnicity category.

I made the point that contrary to Shoog’s assertion of toxic masculinity (and the example he gave of men who exemplify the idea) wasn’t borne out by the evidence. That’s why I said it doesn’t appear to be the reason for the suicide rates among men and women when the issues (sexism, misogyny, etc) in a ‘heteronormative society’ attributed to toxic masculinity, are as prevalent as they are.

It’s why I rejected the original notion in the opening post that society was becoming more woke. It’s not, but you’d be forgiven for being given that impression if you were to take the culture wars nonsense seriously.

There you go with your straw man arguments again. Your implying I said things I never did, I even agreed with you.

Funny man.

In relation to traditional masculinity, my father would definitely fall into that category. So when he got depressed in his later years, he refused to consider a psychiatrist or counselling. He does take antidepressants but he's largely a shell of himself. He's an older generation so it's effectively treated like a dark secret in my family. That's a toxic culture that views mental health as his generation has and it's incredibly sad to see.

But sure that generation is as happy as can be.