Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

I honestly can't get over the argument that people at the end of their careers are well paid.

It's new entrants we are worried about people with 20+ years experience in the public sector are likely to be top of the scale in whatever they do and the salary is either great or just good enough they suffered 20 years of it.

It's attracting new entrants that's the problem nobody wants to work in the public sector because the pay is simply muck compared to private or even semi state bodies, no bonus, no lunch, no health, not even heating in half the buildings why would anybody come work for us?

40k starting after 1 year course engeinerring in Pfizer or Intel possibility to negotiate pay rises at the table with your boss Vs arguing with strangers online about teachers salary It's no wonder we aren't seeing a decent portion of new entrants

I spoke with a teaching graduate of 2021. There were sixty in her graduating class and by Summer 2023 fifty seven of them had emigrated to teach in various places from the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Australia and Canada.. . . . Now right wing loony FF/FGers on boards.ie would interpret that as these people being so well paid by FF/FG that they felt guilt about it and decided to emigrate.

Because the jobseeker gains additional benefits which are not available to other workers.

39K per annum = 39000 / 52.18 = €747 per week. 32% deductions gives €507.96 per week.

Can you explain how?

I don't think the stats are as strong as the poster may have assumed but they do show not everyone completes their degree and not everyone who trains to be a teacher becomes a teacher.

I am not sure who would publish stas on the number of new teachers who quit. I do not know what the Teaching Council publish.

Ive given you that stats but you clearly are not engaging with them and instead just stating your own opinion. How is that any different to what you were originally claiming?

Teachers are not actually paid for the summer. Their salary for the 9 months is paid over 12 months.

On a pro-rata basis, teachers are paid significantly more than shown on the pay scales.

We've now reached the level of. . . . . "There's a pay scale but they're actually paid more than the pay scale"

I know of 4 people now that have studied a 1 year plc and walked into both of them companies starting on 40k base salary, they are closer to 55k after bonuses and premiums added on. 2 of them are now pursuing level 8 degrees funded by the company.

I'm arguing the logic that we need better pay so that we can remain competitive and therefore deliver better services. If you can't see the rational behind being competitive in the labor market I really question your interests in this conversation.

I haven't studied teachers' payscales in any detail, but @Peter Flynt is not entirely wrong in the point I think he is trying to make.

It may be an unpopular opinion on this thread, but it is a commonly agreed one on others that the secondary benefits that come with (some) social welfare payments cannot be discounted, and are actually a disincentive to some seeking full time work.

The fact is, someone on a basic social welfare payment, who also qualifies for Housing Assistance Payment / social housing and a GP/GMS card - when the value of those secondary benefits are all added up they are often equally as well off - or in some cases better off - than someone in full time employment, especially if that person is at the start of their career or a low earner.

Personally as a 3rd year CO I would be better off on the welfare than working I choose to stay because I see progression and I want to work in this field.

I have no fear of being made redundant in this state are Welfare system is strong enough that'll I will be fine.

What I do worry about is moving up and nobody wants to work in lower rungs because the difference in wages is basically nadir to that on welfare

Where did I state engineers? I clearly said a 1 year engineering course.

Learn to read mate

The COs really are the worst off in the country now and are the least vocal.

It's very grating to hear the teachers and their propaganda wing spinning about how hard they have it when all stats show otherwise.

Still though, plenty of applications to the panels for COs, which probably shows how desperate some people are in the private sector be it the insecurity, the workload or poor managers, whatever. Even though the money might be better.

Nope. In my experience in large MNCs and small private sector software businesses, I got increases every year.