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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    The biggest problem really is that nothing we do is going to stop global warming, if all humanity vanished tonight, global temperatures will still rise, but the Green Policies are just another excuse for additional taxation.

    Can anyone shoe us where the funds raised as The Carbon Tax are actually going and being used for?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    In 2021 nuclear provided 68% of France`s electricity. For last year, despite green predictions that it would drop of the scale,it did not and still provided 62.6%. Wind provided 40% here in 2020. Last year that fell to 34%




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Why not show the full survey?


    Question 1:

    When it's rammed down your throat day in and day out that we're all fucked, of course worry will rise. Same as the playbook used in Brexit (take back control, migrants, etc and when Brexit was done, these issues magically disappeared as they weren't pushed on people daily), or getting Trump elected (though thankfully not as damaging as either of those clusterfucks).

    Question 2:

    Why the low side is bolded? Over half those respondents think the government is doing right, or doing too much.

    There's no indication in the poll that says Mary Lou is wrong not to be doing more. Maybe they are happy with her performance?

    Question 6:

    The old data centre scare mongering again. They should ask all these people do they know how much their daily lives depends on data centers. (lets not reopen that debate here)

    Why compare "strongly support" and "tend to support" with "strongly oppose"? Surely it should be 48% vs 35%. Hardly presenting findings to eschew opinion?

    Question 7:

    The tyre deflating clowns will be deflated after this

    Question 8:

    Were people asked about the costs associated to the exchequer to do all social homes? Probably not



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Carbon taxes are used for several things. Its expected to raise 9.5 billion between 2021 and 2030

    • funding the retrofitting program (5 billion)
    • funding 50,000 farmers to improve biodiversity, air and water on their farms (1.5 billion)
    • tackling fuel poverty and providing for a Just Transition (3 billion)

    In terms of that last one, examples from the 2022 budget are

    • An increase to the a Qualified Child Payment of €2 per week for children under 12 and €3 per week for children over 12 - This protects low income families and will reduce child poverty;
    • An increase in the Living Alone Allowance of €3 per week - People living alone are often the elderly most at risk of poverty or people suffering from a disability. These groups are likely to have higher energy needs than average;
    • An increase to the Fuel Allowance of €5 per week - This will compensate a broad range of lower income households (since the Fuel Allowance is means-tested) for the additional energy costs they are likely to incur due to an increase in the carbon tax. This will be combined with a broadening of the threshold for Fuel Allowance eligibility and an increase in the income allowed for the means test that is applied to applicants;
    • An increase in the income threshold for the Working Family Payment of €10 per week – Research has found that children in energy poverty have a greater likelihood of respiratory illness. Using carbon tax funds to compensate low paid employees with children will lead to improved health outcomes, particularly when combined with the qualifying child payment.

    Details on other allocations of funds

    Info source from below




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Whoa! The carbon tax is being spent on social welfare? Why is that? Makes no sense. How is increased child payments an incentive to reduce emissions? Cutting numbers of people is what should happen and not encourage more! All those should be coming from general taxation.

    And that 1.5 billion for agri never happened. The IFA were going bananas a couple of years back about it




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Cool, so the Carbon tax doesn't provide any particular improvement in the environment and only serves to offset what would otherwise be collected through general taxation. TBH, I'd prefer a straightforward % increase in income tax to achieve that since the wealthiest would help those less fortunate, rather than stealth taxes like Carbon tax which impacts those who are in fuel poverty or have modest (typically older) homes more than those with means to avail of the many grants for upgrades etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Note the funding period goes out to 2030 so its not like 1.5 billion is going to be given in a lump sum and it covers a wide range of programs across a load of govt depts

    Around a hundred projects or more have received biodiversity funding over the last few years for local councils alone. I don't know the exact figures, but there's been millions in funding

    The most recent tranche of funding for local authorities alone was for approx 2.5 million

    Sept last year saw 1.4 million

    It also includes funding for staff in the same way AT funding includes staff costs for local council staff for AT roles

    The funding is going out there, but it doesn't suit the IFA, meh



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The ABP decision to quash the LNG application is being challenged in the High Court

    Given how the courts have ruled in recent climate related cases, I can't see the challenge being successful but we'll wait and see



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well by applying it directly to carbon products it will increase the price of them to discourage consumption so I can see the logic behind it going that way but I take your point



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Celtic Interconnector construction has kicked off

    It has been accompanied by a Joint Declaration of Intent from both govts. Details below

    Key aspects of the new Joint Declaration of Intent on Energy Transition Cooperation include:

    • In the near term, both countries will endeavour to make progress on the assessment of the opportunity for increasing electricity interconnection capacities, building on the ongoing work at EU level on the Offshore Network Development Plan which is due to be published early next year. Should that assessment indicate that a second interconnector could be considered, the signatories would be positively disposed to the TSOs advancing towards a prefeasibility study to progress towards a second interconnector
    • Increased cooperation on areas of onshore energy development: including the sharing of information on the design of onshore renewable energy auctions; seeking innovative ways to increase the uptake of rooftop solar; and sharing best practices on the permitting of onshore renewable energy projects
    • Offshore energy: A commitment to accelerate the deployment of offshore renewables and offshore renewable energy systems, including intensifying cooperation on offshore energy, bilaterally and regionally in the North Sea
    • A willingness to jointly assess how hybrid Interconnectors (which allow clusters of offshore wind farms to connect all at once, plugging into the energy systems of neighbouring countries) and other cross border projects could contribute to further market integration and future sector coupling
    • Following the signing a Memorandum of Understanding by the TSO operators, EirGrid and RTE on November 13, 2023, both countries intend to establish specific cooperation frameworks at Ministry and regulator levels to facilitate mutually beneficial offshore transmission and market integration arrangements
    • Planned discussions on potential measures for ports to enhance offshore wind development; and the skills and workforce requirements of offshore wind development
    • Recognise that hydrogen produced by electrolysis has the potential to become a zero-carbon substitute for fossil fuels in many hard to decarbonise sectors. Both countries will endeavour to foster and deepen their dialogue on methods and the role that hydrogen produced by electrolysis will play in the French and Irish energy systems
    • Both countries will also deepen collaboration between respective energy agencies. This follows the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding by the French Agency for Ecological Transition (ADEME) and Sustainable Energy authority of Ireland (SEAI). Collaboration will include exchanging best practices and identifying research/innovation opportunities to collaborate on. Collaboration areas include renewable electricity, decarbonised heat, energy efficiency, transport, climate change
    • The sharing of best practices to address other challenges, such as social acceptance of renewable energy projects and delays associated to planning
    • Both Ireland and France also intend to promote market-driven public-private partnerships and encourage cooperation between French and Irish companies and other relevant actors




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I didn't spot this in the budget, but it has received 200k in funding

    Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science Simon Harris TD has today announced the development of a national centre for electric vehicle skills.

    The centre will be a critical component of the State’s response to the green transition, and will ensure that Irish workers are fully equipped to handle expanding skills requirements of electric vehicles.

    When fully developed, the centre will train people to repair and maintain not only electric cars, but also electric bikes, scooters, trucks, buses, vans and heavy goods vehicles. The centre will allow the Further and Education Training (FET) sector remain a leader in the delivery of motor mechanic skills.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    But isn't agricultural the bold boy in the class, then why aren't they getting the share of the carbon tax to help things?

    Did you read where that 2.5 million is going? On surveys and training mainly. Both of which, have no bearing to achieving anything in a climate emergency. Another way to funnel money to local authorities to deliver the sum total of very little.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But isn't agricultural the bold boy in the class, then why aren't they getting the share of the carbon tax to help things?

    I guess the sector has to show first it can actually make positive changes to reduce emissions. They've made a decent start but as the largest contributor to the nations emissions, they have a long way to go. Maybe they'll get an increase after 2030 when a lot of the retrofitting has been done if they manage to achieve targets



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Hahahaha! **** off will ya. What sort of bullshit statement is that? Have houses being told to show improvements before grants? Has transport been told to get people out of cars before money is spent on them? No and no. But agriculture has to show changes, which they ALREADY HAVE, before they are allowed tap into carbon tax money that's already supposed to be with them. But a council can get money to count owls. Hahahaha. Ya've gone cracked lad



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You asked why agri doesn't get all the tax, why do you not want retrofitting of inefficient homes or supporting regions where the peat industry has shutdown? For me, those are both 2 very important and presently deserve a higher share.

    By 2030 a lot of the retrofitting will be done and you would hope the JT regions would be largely well sorted at which point it would make sense to reassess.

    Now post-2030 the carbon tax will likely go from a 7.50 eur annual increase to a 15 eur annual increase and I would expect the agri sector to get a larger share at that point and I would also expect transport and LULUCF to also get pulled in at that point. Right now however, I see little progress that warrants such a reallocation

    You disagree and think agri should get it all, ok, I don't. We can agree to disagree



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    By 2030 sod all of the retrofitting will be done. It's 6 years away. Most of the homes requiring work have residents with minimal surplus, especially if they have to keep paying more carbon tax to use less fuel. Unless the government decides its such a priority that they pay for every household, only a handful will progress. The only homes that will complete a retrofit are those with sufficient affluence to be able to avail of the low cost loans and grants in the first place and probably already have done so, or those who expect to be given a perfect free home for life. Most people will be scratching their heads and wondering why 2030 looks a lot worse than 2020 and where their income/pensions have gone.

    Thats before we get into the supply side of things. Given the recent stories of folk waiting 18 months on a plumber and longer for a builders, plasterers, etc , I reckon they'll still be waiting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,020 ✭✭✭Shoog


    This is only true if you deny the reality of anthropogenic climate change through greenhouse gas emissions. As such it's not true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Where did I say all the tax? Never said that. Never said I didn't want retrofitting either. Never said I was against the just transition for the peat areas. Can you read what I type? Or if you are unsure, ask my thoughts instead of assuming and then going off arguing about something that was never said. Thanks.

    It's an interesting take on things that agri, the "largest polluter", is fine to go without as much funding as the issue would seem to need until 2030.

    You are advocating seeing sectors show they can change and are making positive changes before funding is allocated in any meaningful way. Call me a cynic, but if sectors are showing improvements without funding then why would funding be given in future?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    All indications are that the rate of retrofitting is growing rapidly. Will they hit 500k homes, maybe, maybe not, though if they hit 400k+ I'd still consider that a great result though obviously the full 500k would be better

    The new low cost loans will assist

    Most of the homes requiring work have residents with minimal surplus

    Do you have a source on that? Would love to see how the income levels break out in terms of BER ratings.

    Note, for low income homes, there are 100% grant options available



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭Jizique


    So the turbines are shut down when wind blows, and there was me thinking all this surplus would be busy producing hydrogen (it won't) or being exported to France to save them from their failed nukes (it won't either)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,020 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Income levels doesn't necessarily mean surplus. I suppose your McMansion voodoo economics allows you to think otherwise. I doubt many households are putting away tens of thousands to pay for retrofits and EVs and whatever other green notions come along, regardless of their incomes. Folk have bills to pay, everything from mortgages to creche fees, energy to nursing homes, that's before staples like food, clothes, health and property tax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Much in the same way as a lot of your posts are only true if you deny reality?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Income levels doesn't necessarily mean surplus. 

    Fair point, though my question stands regarding a source for this statement:

    Most of the homes requiring work have residents with minimal surplus

    I'm really hoping you didn't make that up as I'd love to dive into the data



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,020 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,020 ✭✭✭Shoog


    As the experience with CFL and LED lightbulbs showed 2 decades ago a subsidized government lead energy saving reduction program can cut national energy usage by enough to offset whole power plants.

    A lot can be achieved through an agressive carbon tax funded retrofit program, but the whole strategy is fundamentally flawed below the waterline by inconsistencies in the building regs.

    A class A house, the objective of all new designs and the endpoint for retrofits, has to have large vents in every room - but no obligation for heat recovery ventilation. Why bother going super insulated and airtight if you knock a block out of every wall and allow howling winds in. There are plenty of people complaining about living in Class B-A houses and been cold due to the overventilation and total lack of control over ventilation.

    There is a lot of unjoined up thinking undermining the noble efforts to cut our emissions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Why are we building an extension lead to a country that we've just been told have a cracked up aging nuclear fleet that's constantly down? Aren't we shackling ourselves to a millstone?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Its the first of a few connecting us to the EU grid, with additional connectors being looked at for Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands as well as additional connections to France and the UK on top of those currently underway




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,020 ✭✭✭Shoog


    HVDC grid is a fundament element of the EU renewables strategy. No one is going to reject already built nuclear power onto that grid, that would be childish.

    Also Frances energy policy is seeing them divest of nuclear and expand their renewables fleet.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Where did you get the idea that China has rolled back on its nuclear target ?

    Currently it has 21 new nuclear power plants under construction and has just announced an additional 6 new reactors at 3 already operational sites. According to the China Nuclear Energy Association, (as reported by the state media outlet Xinhau in September this year), they will also be greenlighting 6 -8 new nuclear power units per year for the foreseeable future.

    Where in that do you see where "China has rolled back on its nuclear targets" ?



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