Beginning in 2024, all motor insurers will require a driver number

coylemj · 07-11-2023 3:19pm #1

You've probably seen reports over the past few years about the fact that a large number of drivers on our roads have never sat a test. Well it appears that they're determined to either put them off the road or force them to get a learner permit and do the test. Because, from an as yet unannounced date in 2024, the insurers will be obliged by law to get a driver number before they issue or renew a motor policy.

You will need to supply your own driver number and the numbers of all of the named drivers on your policy.

I got this from my insurer yesterday (Mon. Nov. 6th).....

We want to let you know about an upcoming change to Road Traffic legislation that will affect the renewal of your insurance policy.

From next year, to insure your car or van, we will need the driver number of everyone who is named on your insurance policy (i.e. you and your named drivers).

Without this information, we won't be able to renew your insurance policy.

So, we are asking you to take action now and provide us with your driver number(s) to avoid delays at your renewal next year.

What do I need to do now?

Use our online form to enter your driver number and the driver numbers of everyone else covered by your insurance policy.

GSBellew · 07-11-2023 3:28pm

I do not see any problem here ?

07-11-2023 3:37pm

How would that solve the issue of drivers who haven't sat tests? Isn't the whole issue that these drivers were issued licences without tests? If they have a licence, they have a driver number, so are not affected by this at all

coylemj · 07-11-2023 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337386#Comment_121337386

There are people on the road who last held a provisional licence 20/30 years ago and have never passed (or, in some cases, even sat) the test. They are paying a surcharge on their motor policy for the fact that they don't have a full licence but they have a full no-clams bonus and are prepared to cough up. They never get any problem with the Gardai because they have all the required paperwork on the windscreen and Gardai at checkpoints typically do not ask to see your licence.

Those people will have a big problem from next year. I have passed through hundreds of checkpoints, the Garda looks at the windscreen and waves me on. I have never been asked to show my licence, ever.

Before anyone claims that they do not have insurance cover, that is incorrect, they do. As long as you held a licence at some stage in the past and are not disqualified, your motor policy covers you to drive. If my driving licence expires at midnight tonight, my insurance still covers me to drive tomorrow and for as long into the future as I choose, without renewing my licence. As long as I do not pick up a disqualification.

Atlantic Dawn · 07-11-2023 3:39pm

Looks like a good idea, my last 3 times of been insured they have looked for a scan of my licence so assume they recorded that number from it but probably didn't legally need to until now.

I think there's also something happening this month with garage/trade policies that they must record all cars on the policy with their insurer and keep it up to date with changes so ANPR system has an accurate listing of what cars are insured in the country.

listermint · 07-11-2023 3:41pm

I think it's an awful load of lazy stuff.

What have these insurance companies been doing with My scanned front and back of licenses which every policy has asked me for about 6 years or so.

Kat1170 · 07-11-2023 3:42pm

How will that work for an open policy 🤔

coylemj · 07-11-2023 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337454#Comment_121337454

That was over 40 years ago. You need to let it go.

07-11-2023 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337497#Comment_121337497

I'm not holding on to anything. I assumed those were the drivers your OP was referring to, since you didn't elaborate until your later post.

But even with your clarification - those drivers still have a driver number which they got with their original provisional, so again, how does this requirement affect them?

tabby aspreme · 07-11-2023 5:06pm

A neighbour of mine who has been driving for 40 + years without a license, he originally got insurance using his father's license, was involved in a crash recently, the other driver was 100% at fault, the gardai took a statement from him and requested a license, he explained the situation and reckons he won't get a summons, he now has his theory test done and is taking the mandatory 12 lessons under cover of darkness 😁

07-11-2023 5:42pm

Most insurance companies have been asking for driver numbers so they can verify your penalty point declaration with the RSA for years.

coylemj · 07-11-2023 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337573#Comment_121337573

I was never referring to the people who managed to get a free licence without a test as a result of the 'amnesty' in 1979. And neither was I referring to the people who are now driving in their 80s and 90s who got their first licence before the test was introduced, in 1964.

GSBellew · 07-11-2023 7:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337455#Comment_121337455

I understand this, but I do not see a problem with insurance companies doing this, I see it as a positive move.

Lying would potentially invalidate their insurance regardless of any other clause.

FishOnABike · 07-11-2023 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337829#Comment_121337829

He may be for an unwelcome surprise. Driving without a licence can result in a fine of up to €2000. It could also invalidate his insurance which can result in a fine of up to €5000, 5 penalty points and six months in jail or a driving ban.

If he has passed his theory test and is taking his mandatory 12 driving lessons does he now have a learner permit?

It would be in his interest to sit and pass his driving test and get a full driving licence as soon as possible and make sure he doesn't drive unless accompanied by a qualified driver until he has his full licence.

His insurance company will also need to be informed he doesn't have a full licence and he can expect his insurance policy to go up significantly in price, that is if his insurance company will even insure him. He may have his policy cancelled and/or refused insurance.

If he hasn't sorted out all the lose ends he could be in for a world of woe.

tabby aspreme · 07-11-2023 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338417#Comment_121338417

The other drivers insurance have paid him for the damage to his Jeep, a write off, Gardai said they won't summons him and he has a learner permit and is in the process of getting a licence

FishOnABike · 07-11-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338433#Comment_121338433

He's extremely lucky. He could have had the book thrown at him. He needs to make sure he is being fully honest with his own insurance company that he only has a learner permit or his policy could be invalid. He also needs to ensure he doesn't drive unless accompanied by a qualified driver until he has his full driving licence.

Slightly Kwackers · 07-11-2023 7:38pm

I haven't heard of this,

I am driving on my UK licence. It has been reported to AXA and noted on the renewal if I recall. Is an English driver number acceptable or will I have to swap?

I know I should have got an Irish licence anyway, but never got around to the switch.

SK

FishOnABike · 07-11-2023 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338449#Comment_121338449

Since January 2021 if you are living in Ireland your UK driving licence is not valid for driving in Ireland. You need to exchange it for an Irish driving licence.

https://www.ndls.ie/licensed-driver/exchange-my-uk-ni-licence.html

L1011 · 07-11-2023 7:49pm

I think only one private insurer I've ever used in two decades has actually asked to see my licence, so there is a need to force the issue.

My employers insurers haven't even asked this time, previous jobs have. Only driven a company vehicle three or four times in 18 months but I am listed as a driver

coylemj · 07-11-2023 7:57pm

I'd expect the Healy Raes to take this up - Biddy so and so won't be able to visit her 110 yeard old mother if she can't drive. Becaue she 'never got around to' doing the test.

FishOnABike · 07-11-2023 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338503#Comment_121338503

🙄 Don't start. I can just imagine. "Sure she's been driving all her life and never had a problem before. Will having a bit of paper or a bit of plastic in her purse make her any better a driver than she is without it..."

Tippman24 · 07-11-2023 8:55pm

I have only been asked once in thirty years to provide sight of my licence. About 6 years ago at a Drink Driving Checkpoint outside Templemore.

Del2005 · 08-11-2023 8:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337455#Comment_121337455

Before anyone claims that they do not have insurance cover, that is incorrect, they do. As long as you held a licence at some stage in the past and are not disqualified, your motor policy covers you to drive. If my driving licence expires at midnight tonight, my insurance still covers me to drive tomorrow and for as long into the future as I choose, without renewing my licence. As long as I do not pick up a disqualification.

The insurance company will always cover 3rd parties after an RTC but they can and do sue the person who's policy was invalid in the courts to recoup the costs and they always win as it's a civil case. You might have "insurance" but you'll end up paying for the other persons claim!

Drivers licences expiring are different to never having a licence. If my B licence expires I'm still covered to drive as it was never cancelled, but after 10 years I can't drive as I now need to apply for a learners permit as I can't renew the licence. If you are driving unaccompanied on a learners permit you aren't covered, see my previous paragraph.

whomitconcerns · 08-11-2023 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338449#Comment_121338449

might want to sort that out if you live in Ireland...your licence is invalid for use in ireland for more than 2 years now...

Hoop66 · 08-11-2023 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337455#Comment_121337455

Software architect for a large insurance company here: If your licence has expired you won't be able to get insurance. You might be insured if your licence expires during the term, but only until your insurance comes up for renewal. You can't renew with a licence that is expired.

Eggs For Dinner · 08-11-2023 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340163#Comment_121340163

Stick to the software end of things

Slightly Kwackers · 08-11-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340163#Comment_121340163

Thanks but the license has not expired, it's still valid in the UK and indeed here for insurance purposes. I was particularly careful to ensure that the license was acceptable when I took out the insurance.

It caused problems with one or two brokers, but to be honest It was stupid of me to apply through brokers when it's possible to go direct anyway, fair play to AXA really, they made what was a total nightmare pretty simple. Even in the UK years back a quick call to a broker before the internet would get me on the road with a cover note, here it was almost impossible to buy a car and drive it away from the dealer. You wo0uldn't believe the lunacy some "brokers" spouted.

I will make inquiries next week as to getting the UK one swapped, when I tried before Covid was rampant and the place in Tralee was closed. Since then the publicity about switching has ebbed and One forgets.

This thread has jogged my memory!

08-11-2023 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340614#Comment_121340614

It's not valid here though if you're resident.

Slightly Kwackers · 08-11-2023 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340686#Comment_121340686

It is valid for insurance purposes at present, which is my overriding concern.

I find that I can apply online anyway for a switch, so it will not be a problem.

From past experience the guards here seem a little more tolerant for technicalities than the UK police, I found this out when my tax disk holder broke on my motorcycle years back and when stopped I had it in my pocket, not on the bike. In the UK this would have been a fine.

I can't see that the UK licence would be a major problem anyway as the only support documentation I need for an Irish licence is proof of address and the UK licence. My points attracting driving style has gone forever, so I am not benefitting in any material way.

Anyway it's academic, as soon as I figure out where my PPS card is, I will do it online.

08-11-2023 2:27pm

It's a PSC card you need, not a PPS one.

Slightly Kwackers · 12-11-2023 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341437#Comment_121341437

Yes, I have since found out.

I'll book an appointment, it seems easier.

I had an email from the insurance company last week asking for a driver number, the email suggests foreign licence numbers are acceptable. I sent in the English driver number anyway and have not heard back yet.

I will give them a ring if I don't hear back.

Marcusm · 12-11-2023 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337573#Comment_121337573

Because it makes it easy to check who has insurance but is not fully licenced. Some of those will not have a second named driver and drive unaccompanied. Perhaps they might arrange for some civilian members to AGS to do follow ups in advance of actual Gardaí doing something about it.

Marcusm · 12-11-2023 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338433#Comment_121338433

More’s the pity; he likely lied to get an offer of insurance, e.g. if he claimed to have a full licence. That carries a custodial sentence which is what it sounds like he deserves.

coylemj · 13-11-2023 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357871#Comment_121357871

You can't get cover on the basis that you have a full licence without actually producing a full licence. So it's highly unlikely that he told any lies to get his insurance. And even less likely that he would get jail, if he did.

gipi · 13-11-2023 12:53pm

How will this change work with open driving policies, I wonder?

Or are we seeing the beginning of the end for open driving?

coylemj · 13-11-2023 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362392#Comment_121362392

Open driving applies to people who have a full licence. This new measure will only affect people who have no licence of any kind.

Insurers know that a lot of their customers have been driving for years without a full licence but, year after year, they're happy to take their money.

Marcusm · 13-11-2023 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362334#Comment_121362334

I don’t think I was ever asked by Liberty to produce licence - just to declare that I had one!

galwaytt · 13-11-2023 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340614#Comment_121340614

It's not valid here for any purpose. They ran mountains of ads on media, radio etc at the time and gave a lot of grace at the time. That time has now passed. Get a licence - you're looking at Theory Test, EDT and a Driving Test.

You wouldn't get the same flexibility in the UK I guarantee you.

Slightly Kwackers · 13-11-2023 10:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363896#Comment_121363896

But I came here prior to Ireland and England entering the EU. I always drove on my English licence with two exceptions, one was when my licence was having speeding points added and I had to get an international licence and the other was when I wanted to bring a motorcycle and my motorcycle test was due the week before, so I applied for an Irish provisional licence as a "fail safe". English provisional licences were not valid.

I can still do a simple swop, it turns out I cannot do it online though as I don't have a photographic card with my PPS number.

I know full well what the UK is like. There is no flexibility. I think a lot of the inflexibility is simply a cash grab, anyone with a car is instantly traceable and four wheels means they have some money at least, so police, councils and any thug that can buy a clamping kit and signage sees the motorist as their own little "golden goose".

galwaytt · 14-11-2023 12:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364996#Comment_121364996

So you've been driving without a proper licence since before 1973 ? There's no excuse for that.

Slightly Kwackers · 14-11-2023 3:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365454#Comment_121365454

It depends what you mean by a "proper" licence.

Up to this point I have always been fully legal in any country I drove in.

If my insurance is valid with the licence that I'm using, I am doing no harm to anyone.

My insurance is valid, I have the email and certificate to prove it, so I don't feel too uncomfortable about the situation.

I expect those that look on it as a way of avoiding points feel put out, but as my motorised pub crawls and speeding are things of the past, points are not something that concern me. In the UK they can apply points to people without a licence, as some lads I went to school with found out. The points were added to their first provisional licence if I recall. I'm sure the same would happen here when I do switch anyway.

Flinty997 · 14-11-2023 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337497#Comment_121337497

They'd only be 60.

That said most bad driving is younger people. So not entirely sure if it's worth effort on older people.

A lot of the problems are caused by insurance companies not chasing insurance scams, inflated insurance costs, heath and legal costs.

This driver number seems another means of giving the impression of doing something for the least effort.

SEPT 23 1989 · 14-11-2023 9:22am

Don’t think I have ever switched insurance companies in the last 20 years without sending a copy of the licence to them

14-11-2023 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365767#Comment_121365767

I've only ever done it once, to the AA, in 25 years of driving. Supplying a driver number was slightly more common though.

coylemj · 14-11-2023 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365735#Comment_121365735

Saying 'This driver number seems another means of giving the impression of doing something for the least effort.' suggests that this is some kind of token effort on the part of insurance companies to improve safety on the roads. It is no such thing, it's being forced on them by legislation.

The thousands of older drivers out there who have never passed the test are paying higher premiums which the insurance companies are happy to collect. There is nothing in this initiative for them. If there was, all of them would have been demanding your driver number (I know some of them do already) for several years past.

14-11-2023 12:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366249#Comment_121366249

You've already said that these drivers have held a provisional licence. In which case they have a driver number. So how does this legislation do anything to prevent them getting insurance?

Flinty997 · 14-11-2023 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366249#Comment_121366249

I don't see the point of it then.

Flinty997 · 14-11-2023 2:10pm

Did you put in the router password?

L1011 · 14-11-2023 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362334#Comment_121362334

There are piles of insurers that don't check your licence (currently).

I had to provide it once in my entire time having insurance - to Travelers (who have now left the market), but I've never given it to 123 (when RSA tied and owned), Quinn/Liberty, FBD (direct or nononsense branded) or AIG.

Quinn was the only one I ever used with a provisional, and they didn't ask for the full when informing them of the change in status either.

There's a lot of reliance on the "utmost good faith" basis by insurers in Ireland (nearly said Irish insurers, but 3/4 of those are UK/US)

galwaytt · 14-11-2023 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365579#Comment_121365579

If you are domiciled here, and do not have an EU licence here, you do not have a "proper licence" and therefore are not "fully legal" in any country you drive in. A condition (say) of you driving to the UK is that you are fully compliant with the law where you are domiciled (e.g. tax, insurance, NCT, licence), which leaves you exposed to points & fines there as well.

You claim your insurance is valid because of this - yet that's an assumption as it hasn't been tested in your case. Yet. And nobody want's the Yet to come true. What could happen is that your insurance would pay out on a claim, and then they could go after you in a civil suit to clawback any payments paid out by them.

And yes, if you accumulate points on a 'ghost licence', as soon as you get an Irish one they will be applied to it.

coylemj · 14-11-2023 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366756#Comment_121366756

I wasn't aware of that. I informed Axa when I passed the test and they asked me to fax the certificate of competency to them so I wouldn't have the loading for a provisional licence at my next renewal. I assumed that everyone else did something similar.

If they're as lax as you say, this initiative is going to expose a lot of provisional/no licence drivers and they are going to get royally screwed at their next renewal if they previously declared that they had a full licence.

Beginning in 2024, all motor insurers will require a driver number

Comments