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Easiest way to get a GUI handicap

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  • 14-11-2023 11:03am
    #1
    magic_murph
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭


    I play very in frequent golf and can't justify paying full membership for a clue knowing I will only get out a handful of times a year (I have young kids)

    I do get the chance to play in some competition and the lack of handicap is always an issue - I generally play but don't submit a card - not that I would have a chance of winning or anything

    If the best, most affordable option to do an out of county membership then simply submit three cards from when I play a course locally or is there a better route to take?



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    #2
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    Distance membership is the way to do it in Ireland. Can't get a handicap index without being a member somewhere.

    England Golf have a good system where you sign up to iGolf and pay something like £50 a year to get and maintain an official WHS handicap index without being a member of a club.

    There's no such system in Ireland. Typical Irish mentality though. The whole world is working towards making golf more affordable and accessible to everyone but Ireland maintains this barrier to keep the clubs happy.



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    #3
    magic_murph
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366038#Comment_121366038

    Thanks for that. I thought we had something similar here with the 'online club' but doesn't look like it.

    So if I join somewhere up the county would I need to submit signed cards to that club or just submit online / through the official GUI system.

    I've been playing golf for years but never join up anywhere or even really looked into the handicap process so its all fairly new



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    #4
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    I'm not 100% sure on it so maybe someone else can correct me but I would imagine your first 3 cards would need to be submitted to that club in order to get your initial handicap. After that you can just submit scores on the Golf Ireland app from anywhere you like.



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    #5
    magic_murph
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366143#Comment_121366143

    That's what I would have thought as well but with the new changes to the HC system I thought that process might have changed. I am sure I can talk through the process once I pick an out of town club etc



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    #6
    big_drive
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭big_drive


    As far as I know the 3 cards would need to be played at the course you join.

    You can't for example join a club in Kerry , then play 3 rounds at a course in Dublin and send them to club in Kerry looking for a handicap.

    I could be wrong as lots changed with new system but that would be my understanding of it



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    #7
    Compo82
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Compo82


    I'm not sure where you are based but Deerpark in Howth you can join for €200 and submit three cards and you'll get your GUI handicap. It's pay as you play so it's €27 a round.



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    #8
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    One thing to note though is that qualifying is finished in most courses now so any rounds won't count towards your handicap. Unless you're planning on joining and playing on a links course which may have qualifying all year round.

    If not, you might be best off waiting till the spring before joining anywhere.



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    #9
    dan_ep82
    Registered Users Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭dan_ep82


    I know there used to be a rule that you had to compete in 3 singles qualifying competitions at your home club the previous year to play in Open Comps. Your initial handicap covers the first year but then you may have to go back to keep it active.



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    #10
    willabur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭willabur


    pay and play is your best bet, Corballis offer the same and have 12 month qualifying conditions



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    #11
    Deporhostia
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭Deporhostia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366544#Comment_121366544

    This is not needed anymore.

    Start off with 3 cards at your home club to get a handicap, but then you never have to play your home club again if you so wish.



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    #12
    paulos53
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭paulos53


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366038#Comment_121366038

    Looks like Golf Ireland are planning to bring in a similar system to England's iGolf. The Ballyliffin General Manager is not happy about it: https://irishgolfer.ie/uncategorized/2024/04/23/ballyliffin-general-manager-highly-critical-of-whs-and-proposed-igolf-scheme/



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    #13
    big_drive
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭big_drive


    With the increase in subs in most clubs this could appeal to a lot of golfers, especially those who might not get out that often to justify paying full membership



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    #14
    paulos53
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭paulos53


    It will be interesting to know how many golfers would leave clubs to take this up. England golf have said that 12% of iGolf members take the step to joining a golf club but I haven't seen any numbers on the reverse.



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    #15
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,910 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    It obviously will not be popular on the forum or in particular golf club members...( I predict) .

    But if I ignored that..there is a logic for any association to make access to their sport cheap and to grow its base.

    Basically what every other sport does..

    I'm a member of Cycling Ireland and a GAA club ..but I'm a complete outsider and of casual involvement.

    But debate will be very different (interesting) here .

    Whilst we talk about opening up golf and we have been tested with WHS ...if the truth be known...we have a very interesting, passionate and local culture in golf in Ireland.



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    #16
    The Big Easy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭The Big Easy


    Cost and time are both an issue for me, but I won't be leaving my club to take this route and only be able to play sporadic open comps.

    Now, if this was around when I wasn't a member of a club I 100% would have taken it up.



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    #17
    big_drive
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭big_drive


    I wouldn't exactly be against it. Think it provides a pathway for people taking up the game to eventually become members of a club



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    #18
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I can see merits in this but if the pricing is similar to iGolf then IMO it's far too cheap, I think that will be pulling the rug out from under clubs.

    I think it's worth remembering that not all clubs are big money making machines, many (most?) are member owned and maintaining a course is very expensive.



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    #19
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,747 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    I'd be for it. Membership in my home club has gone up and up and up and up constantly and I know factually that the value in it is gone for me now

    I'd be happier with something like this and just playing Open Comps. I assume Clubs would probably increase their Green Fee Rates and Open Comp Visitor Rates to balance things slightly but f it. My home club among all of the price increases has put in stuff that hasn't benefitted the club one bit - A new putting green which nobody uses; they changed up the Driving Range slightly which has made no difference; and bunkers on the course are getting worse and worse.

    I feel like my Membership fee isn't getting put to proper use. Less than 13 holes open 6+ months of the year (I know that's not their fault obviously)



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    #20
    animajic
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭animajic


    When I started out last year I was playing with friends that were also beginners and are scattered about the country, so we'd meet up at courses in between us and play rounds. A system like iGolf would've been perfect for us to develop handicaps (and probably add some competitiveness to lower our HC too) as we were playing, but ultimately I joined a club this year for many reasons, but a big one being the ability to actually get a HC.



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    #21
    token56
    Registered Users Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭token56


    I think it's a great idea. A lower barrier to entry to the sport is always a good idea in my opinion. I don't see too many people who are currently a member of a club leaving and getting this instead. Certainly active members given that they would then have to pay a green fee any time they actually want to pay. It is maybe part of a wider conversation but I think golf as sport needs to evolve quickly and I would see this as a good first step.



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    #22
    TrueDub
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭TrueDub


    If this had been around when I was looking to get back into golf, I'd probably have considered it. However, it doesn't solve what was my major problem - company to play with. The joy of joining a club is that there's a competition most days where you can plonk yourself down on the timesheet and end up with one or more partners to play your round with (I appreciate the inherent risk of getting stuck with an absolute bore, but there you go).

    If you're an established player with a bunch of people to play with in lots of different places, it might make sense. But it doesn't meet my primary need, so it's not for me.



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    #23
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users Posts: 8,573 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    Whilst I get the idea of trying to open up golf to more people, I think it would be an appalling decision to open it up to Club Opens.

    I think I'd be of the opinion that, it's generally fine to introduce, but you should be paying 100% club rack-rates. You shouldn't be getting the benefit of discounted open rates. Or you could play opens, but at a significant premium relative to club members.

    Smacks of just selfish individualism. I want the benefit of club golf without paying for the privilege.

    This will potentially cripple many clubs I would say, so could be counter productive. Only the big clubs might be able to financially support a big drop in memberships.



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    #24
    Golfgraffix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Golfgraffix


    Funny, that when FkexiGolf lunched as a private enterprise a few years back, G I shut it down pretty quickly



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    #25
    paulos53
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭paulos53


    Going by how it is implemented in England and Scotland, then it would be up to each club to set their own terms of competitions for opens. I have seen examples of clubs barring entries from members of the independent scheme and other cases where they are allowed play but not win a prize.



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    #26
    Golfgraffix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Golfgraffix


    Clubs will close their doors to these nomad members of GI, or at least make it so expensive so as to be closed off. The only handicap they will get will be from GP with their mates and we have seen how that has worked out amongst actual members. This is a race to the bottom in peer review terms



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    #27
    The Big Easy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭The Big Easy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122057061#Comment_122057061

    How many members do you think would actually leave a club to do this unless they were close to leaving anyway for financial or other reasons?

    I agree with your main point though and if it resulted in higher open fees for those who pay a full sub, I'd be pretty annoyed. I'm surprised at how little opens I've played anyway since joining my current club.

    Very few if any opens are on weekends and the extra travel just makes the time commitment too long generally. The price of opens have crept up too with not a lot of value to be had anymore. We played a team comp in MJ in February for €75 a head and it wasn't worth that considering the time of year and course condition, their next one is €85 and although I'm sure course conditions will be better I doubt it's worth it.

    Course maintenance is expensive though and I'd hate to see courses have to close due membership erosion though a measure like this. The alternative angle as has already been mentioned, what if someone near a country club wants to play a bit, but doesn't really know how to go about it or is unsure about forking out for membership.

    They do this for a year, realised how much they enjoy golf and would love to be able to nip out in the evening for some practice or a few holes and they then join their local club.

    The research has to be done first though and if it's a net positive for golf club membership then I guess we should go along with it. There will always be freeloaders with every system unfortunately.



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    #28
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,910 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    It is up to GI to convince everyone that this is a net positive and aligned with their strategy to open up and grow the game. I'd be all for it. If it is aligned with that.

    There will be a few private clubs and vested interest complaints - that is the nature of change.

    I look on enviously how easy it is to access other sports and how they are doing such a great job getting more into the national pysche and coverage. Golf has always had an access problem - if the data shows this helps , go for it. If golf grows more it is a positive for a feed into clubs and also for our performance on main tours.

    Good points above - this would be some form of diminished membership not giving you full benefits of a full club member.

    It just makes a larger pool for everything. Key to growth.



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    #29
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122057322#Comment_122057322

    I think if you can get a handicap without a membership, then club membership becomes pretty much a purely financial decision. Today, it's not entirely financial, since getting a handicap, being able to play opens etc etc is tied into it.

    In the Dublin + surrounding areas, where pretty much all half decent courses have membership rates that are 4 figures+, the gap between a 50 euro handicap and a club membership is enormous. I don't see many people making that leap. You would have to be playing a huge amount of golf to bridge that gap if you look at it purely financially. Anyone playing that much is likely already a member, so I don't see this as much of a teaser to get people to buy memberships.

    For clubs elsewhere where membership rates are much lower, maybe that gap will be bridged and it'll entice people into membership.

    What it will definitely do though is increase the amount of green fees clubs take in, if people who used to be unable to play open competitions are now able to do so.

    But this will only benefit clubs if it doesn't have a negative impact on membership. And I think it will, since this scheme essentially makes pay-as-you-play golf no different to club membership, and therefore the value of club membership is diluted.

    And I'm not just talking about people leaving clubs (which I think will happen), but we also have to consider getting new members in to replace older members who leave because they're now too old to play or have died etc. If the young golfers of today pay their 50 quid and get their handicap and play pay-as-you-play golf, what is going to entice them into club membership in future?

    Are we going to see a rake of clubs shutter because they don't have enough members to keep the lights on? Will we see a race to the bottom in terms of standards as clubs have to drive their costs down as low as possible, therefore reducing the quality of courses available to us?

    As /spacegolfgraffix say above, I think if this comes in clubs will be forced into measures to protect themselves by making it financially less appealing than it otherwise would be. Maybe some sort of significant "course maintenance fee" that has to be charged to everyone without a full Golf Ireland membership when they enter any open competition.



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    #30
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122057456#Comment_122057456

    Golf has an access problem because you need a course to play on and courses are really expensive to build and run. It's not like other sports in this regard IMO.

    Football / GAA / rugby etc, outside of the elite venues the facilities at these sports are pretty rudimentary and a lot cheaper to build and maintain than a golf course. You can play these on pretty much any open area of grass.

    Cycling you need to buy a bike and some gear and away you go.



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    #31
    bobster453
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭bobster453


    Despite all the issues with my home club as alluded to by @callaway92 i would not like to see igolf develop as a concept.

    To me it shows Golf Ireland is not interested in clubs but increasing the numbers playing at the expense of clubs.

    There are many and varied ways of joining a club that has its roots in the community and delivers a service and creates direct and indirect local employment.

    As pointed out already most clubs are member owned and run professionally by amateurs who love the game.

    This to me would cost clubs by lower membership numbers leading to increased fees costing more members to leave eventually making clubs that already operate on a shoestring unviable and closing.

    Lower number of clubs leads to increased fees for those that survive the cull, a strain on resources including the course itself by increase in use leading to increased fees in order to keep the course in decent condition.

    And who would police this independent handicap?..nobody leading to yet more 28 and 30 handicappers who can play off scratch when it suits them winning finals of open competitions.

    If Golf Ireland insist in forcing this through the only option for clubs is to have one fee for members of a golf club in opens and an extortionate much much higher fee for holders of an igolf handicap.

    Something like 10 times the norm would sort this out.

    Clubs are under enough pressure as it is and offer so much more than just a handicap.Something like this needs to be stamped out or it will be the death knell for a lot of local clubs imo.



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