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Couple Ordered to Demolish House - any update?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,372 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    For someone with your username, it seems a bit strange that you would want to do away with the exemption that allows communities to continue and survive. There are basically two options:

    1) The default of no more self builds with no exemptions

    2) The default of no more self-builds with local needs exemptions

    We currently have (2). If you do away with the exemption, then you are on (1)


    You may be fantasizing about an imagined third option along the lines of

    3) Anyone can build where and what they want when they want.

    But that would be nonsense. That ain't gonna happen



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,029 CMod ✭✭✭✭Gaspode


    OK folks so much nonsense and pedantry in the last few pages. If there are more reported posts from this thread it will be closed. Or maybe demolished.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Why? Its not offensive stuff so whats the problem?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,058 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    No

    So what criminal offence are the builders of the house guilty of?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo



    All offences are criminal offences! As already posted, the literal definition of "offence" is "a crime".

    Perhaps you are confusing the historic "Indictable and Non-Indictable" offences? In any case, both are classifications of criminal offence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The answer to your question is literally in the post you quoted. If you carry out unauthorised development (i.e. development without planning permission) then you have committed an offence.


    PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT ACT, 2000

    PART VIII

    Enforcement

    151.  —Any person who has carried out or is carrying out unauthorised development shall be guilty of an offence.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,029 CMod ✭✭✭✭Gaspode


    Since we are stuck in a timeloop on what is or isn't an offence, thread closed for a week in the hope that some sense might return.


    Anyone opening a new thread on theOP subject to circumvent this will be banned from this forum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭dubrov


    I can't see any update on this story so assume the house is still standing. 17 years and counting



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭GavPJ


    Must have a nosey at the house next time I'm over that way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    The house won't be knocked. I think a compromise whereby the owners reduce it in size is the most sensible way forward at this point.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo



    Wont that just encourage people to try and get away with it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Well a lack of enforcement of the laws will too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Agreed, but I wouldnt call your proposal "enforcement" considering the house isnt supposed to exist!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭TheAnalyst_


    So its open season to build a house on whatever land you own then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 46,014 ✭✭✭✭muffler




  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭Anaki r2d2


    Because these people built a massive house without planning and are getting away with it.

    surely not hard to get the point made by https://www.boards.ie/profile/TheAnalyst_



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭rn


    There was an update in June 2023. They were back in court to challenge one of the reasons for rejection of the original planning permission/retention. It was around the undertakings given by previous land owner to "sterilise" the lands from development. Apparently he hadn't the authority to give such a legal binding as the land was jointly owned at the time. So they are seeking yet another injuction from the court to stay off demolition. I believe they are offering to demolish part of the building if they can retain a house there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭rn


    I don't think so. Most people can't afford to build without mortgage so that creates enforcement of sorts.

    There's certain cases where contravention of planning law requires rapid enforcement eg where a neighbour or several are directly impacted and there are objectionsregistered. But I don't think this is one of those cases. This one is more on points of principle as I understand it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,411 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The principle being you don't conduct building works without getting permission first. The sooner it is pulled down the better.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Novice Self-Build


    Hopefully that family will be allowed to live their lives in peace. They built a family home and are not looking for the state to provide a free house.

    If their neighbours have not objected, it should not be demolished. Politicians, bankers and the church have done so much worse with no consequences.

    The fake outrage from the anonymous curtain twitches here is very entertaining so please don't stop 😁



  • Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    Not as entertaining as this post Donald! 😂🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You won't mind if I build my monstrous dream mansion right at your boundary wall presumably, just building a house for my family?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Novice Self-Build


    You seem to ignore the reality is you don't live next to him. Those that do have not objected. Save you fake outrage for your own neighbours. Planning Enforcement should be consistent. Politicians are consistently pulling planning strokes and no local authority has hounded them on this scale.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Whilst I agree with the sentiment that would be a dangerous precedent to set when it comes to planning. The house simply should not have been built. At the same time pragmatism needs to prevail. They should absolutely have to resubmit plans to the council for a more modest type of dwelling. If approved they should then have to implement those plans. I don't think the house should be fully knocked but they can't be let away with it either. I'd bet anything though nothing will happen. Based on that why would anyone bother with planning permission if the council won't enforce court orders.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    I'm going to ignore your whataboutism regarding Politicians.

    I think you're missing the point. Leaving this case alone sets a dangerous precedent. It would open the door to anyone to give it a go, on the basis that you'll be left alone if you manage to get the house built and occupied.

    Bear in mind that this wasn't an accident - the Murray's were denied permission for a house, so they went ahead and built a house twice the size. This was a calculated risk by them and they are playing every card they can. Zero sympathy from me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    For most of human history, that is precisely how things worked. Nowadays buildings built like that get preservation orders slapped on them and are made national monuments with penalties for altering their character or demolishing them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Their original application should not have been refused. Had it been granted, this mess would never have happened. I'd like to put a bulldozer through the Irish planning laws and the mean-minded, parochial and socialist mindset that they are based on.

    Nothing about this situation acts as encouragement to anyone else to do likewise, given the massive legal costs and hassle involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,210 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    That's a moot point. It was refused. Public opinion here is important. If they had of built the house to the original plans submitted they would have the public on their side. But they took on a vanity project instead. I can't see the house being knocked but I do see the council pursuing them for enforcement. I can't imagine the stress the family are under with the hanging over them with no end in site. Knowing that at potentially any stage the court orders can be enforced is no way to live really.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,372 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Some of us have loadsa money and would be happy to pay the costs to get what we want.

    I'd happily buy the Hill of Tara and put my massive McMansion and golf course on it and pay a few quid legal bills.


    Mar-a-Tara-go



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