Outside blocks

TB is a disease of intensification. Zero grazing herds are generally reasonably intensive. The larger the herd and the tighter they are in a shed, the bigger the outbreak.

happened to a farmer i know... took land for zero grazing belonging to a guy with greyhounds.... at least 20 out of 100 cows got it

@GrasstoMilk I have been following the thread for a few days and thinking a bit of how I might respond to it. I'm a bit similar to you in age and a young family and a love of farming. But part time and at the beef game.

Being critical friends here, most want to help, by picking holes in the best of our plans. This forces us to step back and think and ultimately it helps us make the best decision for our farms.

Looking at all farms, the most important piece of stock or machinery is the farmer themselves. They drive the vision of the the farm, by the their everyday actions.

As i type this, I'm just finishing up the evening foddering after putting all the smallies to bed. Over the past few years time has been the biggest thing that will drive profitability, whether that's reducing the cost of labour or the amount of labour. This career is not a sprint, it's a marathon, its all about minding the body. Farmer in the past have not been good at this but we have a new young generation of farmers who value this. Its about having the time to switch off, it could be go to kids matches go to a run or a few pints with the buddies.

You are lucky and blessed to have you father wishing to work along side you daily doing what he chooses, long may it continue, but simplifying you system should be key. Adding a zero grazer to the system is not going to do that. Well done on getting your herd to where it's at and the production figures you have are not to be sniffed at.

I type this after listening to the latest episode of the dairy edge, and this was the poke that I needed. It contained some key messages for all farmers, but it's very worthwhile to this discussion. Marginal milk, what it costs to produce with imported feed, be that meal, maize, silage of rented ground or even zero grazing off an outblock. The most profitable milk will be the milk produced from grazed grass. Why with not mechanised, mechanised feed has a time and a physical cost. I would recommend all farmers have a listen over the coming days

Please take your time to mull over the idea of the zero grazer fully. All investments should start with a simple question, is it going to make my life easier and save me money daily.

Thanks for your posts lads

I appreciate everyone’s opinion be they good or bad I just don’t like negativity. Maybe it’s just the way a posts comes across etc. I have a fair few friends who wouldn’t shy away from telling me to cope on either and me the same

yes certainly lots to think about and mull over and I listened to the dairy edge podcast too.

very lucky to have dad here to be able to chip in and help keep things on the straight and narrow, also very lucky I have a wife who is very interested and will happily milk or do errands when ever she’s able

we also got an au pair this year and it’s been a complete game changer for us. Has taken so much stress out of the equation. There’s someone there for the kids all day long

there is no decision made yet but from any of the figures I’ve done they stack up if I can get back in meal fed and hold milk solids and cut out a lot of the silage feeding in the the grazing season. The biggest hurdle to get over is the time element and the wear and tear on tractors and machine

at the end of the day we all need to make a decision on how had we want to work and how much we want to achieve and how quickly we want to get there

She’s from bergamo in Italy and her grandfather is a tillage and dairy farmer.

her parents came to visit during the summer and her father told me my cows would be killed in Italy because they don’t do 40l 😂😂😂

Same story around here the father of kids was carrying on with the au pair

in fairness an easy thing to happen it's a dicey one at times a young one around the house all day !

Got to love F&F at times.

Where you start a thread on the pros and cons of buying a zerograzer and it morphs into a discussion on riding your Au pair

@GrasstoMilk

I just came across this thread. Trying to get to 90-100% efficiency takes more effort than getting from 50-80%. Now technically you may not think you are pushing the boat out and everything looks great.

It's not the time on the zero grazer that will catch you it's the slurry, agitating, pushing in grass the second time cleaning the feed face etc.

This work is not spread out over the year. It will be in 3-4 weeks bursts. When you have to Zero every day for adding 1-2 hours onto the day and then agitating spreading slurry on it.

If @mahoney_j is correct and it causes feet issues as well then it will add more complications. You are looking at adding 2.5% to your protein figures to really justify it. The extra cows will probably not justify it.

Labor is the killer on dairy farms. Ya you have a couple of young lads at present but they will need constant replacing. It's easy when you have good help.

The other factor is your children. I see a few lads with no successors, the main reason is children grow up to hate it because they see there father trapped by it or they themselves get to hate it because of the workload

Tbf MJ those issues are largely associated with Holsteins aswell as that type of cow not being able to deal with lush grass and getting acidosis

we don’t suffer from acidosis in our cows and they’d be getting fair lush grass, don’t suffer from low bf due to lush grass either

I do agree feet issues from being at the barrier might be an issue but I don’t agree our cow will be worse off from eating lush grass.

I accept your opinion on it but we are on a different cow type and I don’t intend to go away from what we’re breeding

I’ve been talking to 6 different ppl about it over the last month. None of them were recommended by any of the zero grazing companies

they all felt the benefits out weighed the negatives of it.

I don't know lads. I was thinking of building more cubicles, shed and storage here but I have enough cubicles for 170KgsN at the moment. It's hard to know what way things will pan out but I might let things settle here around the 170kgs for a while and work on removing the bottom 5 or 10%. Kinda suits anyway with the price of building and all.

Ya. But have 92 cubicles. Kinda stuck for a shed for in calf heifers but not sure about building if it is going to be moth balled in 2026 with the loss of derogation.

More I think of this …..more the thought of more hassle ,work and complication for what is marginal milk ….de stress yourself and uncomplicate your system and milk a few less cows ….your already feeding strong and buffering strong through stages of year on top of having a heavily stocked milk block ….only my thoughts but a z grazer will do nothing for you only give headaches and your return v neglible

It's not in the sellers interest to split off part and lose a potential bidders.

Now depending on the otherenter that may be an option but some people have been known to have someone else buy land for them while they claim no interest.

Tanks have accelerated capital allowances so could put in the storage in a place that suits the yard if you were to go ahead with more cubicles. That can then be done at a later date If needed

As far as I remember you said you have land about 30 km away. Would you shift a portion of that to buy beside you? I have land 9 miles away and I'd jump at the chance.

Is @Jack98 working I think he said previously he was working. Even if not if he is married and his spouse is working it changes the draw down necessity. He probably has capital allowances so he can use these to defray drawdown. Interest rates may not always be 6%. The land is going to help with income from it as well.

As @Grueller said he has an outblock further away he can sell. If he has little necessity for other drawdowns. However a company is the most efficient form however it something I think is hilarious. Farmers use a company to defray the tax use the extra cash within the company to pay more for land ( IMO company formats have added 40-70% to land prices) and at the end of the day if you want to take the land out of the company you pay way more in tax again on an inflated land prices

If everyone had to buy Agri land outside company formats we would all be as well off

I agree that a company setup is the best to protect yourself from income tax.

However it becoming a monster on land prices. Lads are driving the price of land because they are buying the land out of gross income( taxed at 12.5%). But it's a false economy as the land is within a company structure in reality it not really yours. It will make it hard to split land banks down the line.

It is in two parts 26 acres with development potential and 14 acres up the road, land in that area is making 15-20k an acre whereas the place bounding us will be all out to make 12k but decent land too. I’d consider selling the 14 acres convincing the parents would be the issue I reckon as it’s my mothers home place and sentimental value etc

If it's decent land make no presumptuous on what it will make. Lately other side of Limerick a block of land with a ROW through another farm with two gates to go through went to that money. Two dairy farmers got stuck in each other. AFAIK it was going through one of there farms and the other lad bounds it. No development potential not even site potential.

If there is two lads where they are incorporated 12-14k seems to be the same as 7-9k

Yard is fairly well see have 120 cubicles in home yard and finished tank for collecting yard lately which with existing tanks would have us having excess slurry storage for current numbers and comfortable for 130+ cows, 10 unit parlour that wouldn’t take much investment to extend to 14 also.

I have one brother who is in final year engineering in UCC who has already been offered a job in cork where he done placement after he graduates, he wouldn’t be as inclined to go milking but outfarm with development potential would have to be left for him to be fair to him.

Must get onto our advisor and see if it would be viable if working for another 10 years could make a nice dent in possible repayments and give a chance to free up some bit more money on farm for some investment to have farm well setup for when parents wind down and I’d go home full time.