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Court Summons with no court date

  • 17-11-2023 3:32pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭


    Hi,

    Just looking for some advice or insights and not an "ask your solicitor" suggestion please.

    I received a courts summons by post from my neighbour over a domestic issue. It comes via a solicitor, but there is no court date on this document.

    I understand that a courts summons has a twelve months time limit, but I also thought a court summons included a court date?

    Does the plaintiff have the right to decide if they want to proceed to court when it suits them in this twelve month period?

    Any genuine reply from your experience will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks

    🙄



Best Answers

«1

Answers

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭brokenbad


    Could the domestic issue not have been resolved without involving solicitors?

    Makes things very awkward living next door to someone bringing you to court...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,931 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Are you sure it's a summons? If it is, it will have come direct from the court, and not a solicitor.

    Sounds to me like a threatening letter from the solicitor.

    Without seeing the format or wording of the document you received it's impossible to say what exactly it is. I'd have your own solicitor have a look. they should be able to advise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    From what we have learned the person involved has a history of using this particular solicitor to communicate their issues in this way!



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    Yes, it has a stamp from the court on the copy of the date it was issued, but as I stated it has no court date. I was told the plaintiff has up to 12 months from the date of the incident to tell the solicitor to apply for a court date!


    Have you any knowledge of this type of procedure or do you think it is a a solicitor using some form of threat?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,255 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Local citizens advice or Garda station to ask the validity of the letter if as you say its a regular thing by the neighbour and their legal council could be classed as harassment and intimidation but again just pop down to either of those two to get clarification.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    Why would you say the validity of the letter is questionable. Of course, I have spoken to my solicitor to asked what is the procedure. I have been told that the person involved has to apply for a date within this 12 month period of their claim.

    What I would like to know is this normal procedure when you receive a summons and if anyone has had experience of same?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4 SomethingElse78


    My reply would have been everything Allinall wrote and I would have added that if you do not 'have' a solicitor, most would take a quick look and translate it's content without actually retaining your services in the hope that, should you need one, you will choose them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 621 ✭✭✭AnRothar


    I have spoken to my solicitor to asked what is the procedure. 

    Did your solicitor advise you of the following?

    I have been told that the person involved has to apply for a date within this 12 month period of their claim.

    If so then your professional advisor has advised you what the legal situation is.

    Any further queries should be addressed to them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    I have only asked if anyone is capable of confirming that a court summons must have a court date?

    In this situation from what I can understand, it seems that a person (plaintiff) can get their solicitor to apply for a court summons without a date for court, send it to the defendant and basically threaten them that they may have to appear in court.

    All I am asking if anyone has experienced this situation?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But why did you not put this question to your solicitor or if you did then why ask here?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    I thought this discussion forum would give me some more insight and I thought the people who contribute might offer their insight or experience with this matter. Obviously I have spoken to a solicitor. But unless there is a court date then is this summons is just pending?

    My reason for asking here were for peoples thoughts to do with the fact that a courts summons has been posted out with no court date. Again from what anyone knows, is this normal or strange?

    Has a solicitor the right to apply for a courts summons, issue it without a court date to a defendant and have the option of applying for a court date later within the time allowed?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Out of curiosity, what did you and the solicitor chat about if you didn't discuss basic stuff like this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Is the solicitor's letter actually from a firm of solicitors ?

    I ask such a stupid question as I encountered something many years ago where a mock up of a legal letter was sent to somebody with a view to intimidating them.

    Secondly, if the summons looks odd that might be consonant with another mocked up document also designed to scare the recipient.

    Despite the OP's opening request my inclination would be to get my solicitor to check with the District Court that purportedly issued the summons and ask if they actually issued it.

    P.S. OP's solicitor should also check if the firm of solicitors exists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    Sometime after the summons was sent, the plaintiff's solicitor did inquire if we were making an 'appearance', so my solicitor had to confirm this to the court, so I can presume that the court summons was credible.

    But there is still no court date issued, is this the legal procedure?

    Is the court date confirm at a later time as there is a waiting list!

    Can anyone answer this please or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes and Yes.

    What did your solicitor say? I can't see what answers you're looking for. You have a pending summons. You have talked to your solicitor. What more do you want?



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    So you are saying that you can get a court summons sent out to you without a court date and that a court date for that particular summons will be issued at a later date?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    Reading through this, it does seem wrong that you weren't issued a court date.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/summons/



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    According to citizens information

    Information that summonses must have,

    A summons issued under the 1851 Act or the 1986 Act must contain the following information:

    • The name of the complainant or prosecutor (for example, a Garda’s name)
    • The name and address of the person against whom the complaint is made
    • Details of the alleged offence including the time, date and place of the alleged offence
    • The date, time and venue of the court
    • The judge's signature if issued by a judge, or the name of the District Court clerk


    The summons I am making queries about, does not have the date, time and venue of the court!

    Why?

    Anyone able to give a reason why if this is not the normal procedure!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm still confused by your ongoing questions.

    Did your solicitor tell you that this was a genuine letter from the court?

    Did your solicitor tell you why there was no date or venue for a hearing?

    Has your letter been signed by a judge or court clerk?

    Does the letter have a contact name & address and is that contact the other solicitors or the court?



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    Don't take this in the wrong way, but I'm still confused why you can't answer my ongoing questions about this particular item. If you do not know, then fair enough I understand you may not have a legal background or experience of same.

    Yes, the heading is 'Personal Injuries Summons' from the Circuit Court, it has a court stamp and record number, so it must be genuine!

    Yes, I read and saw a copy, there was no date or venue.

    No, it is not signed by a judge but has what looks like a faded print of a signature name with B.L. "Barrister at Law". Yes, tt is signed by the Solicitor.

    Yes, the letter does have a contact name & address and is the contact the other solicitors.


    Still no one can confirm if they have ever received a summons like this with no court date?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes. Didn't your solicitor explain this when you spoke??..



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Yes, the letter does have a contact name & address and is the contact the other solicitors.

    So your solicitor confirmed that this is a genuine court summons letter despite the contact details being the opposing legal firm?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Your neighbour is bringing a civil case against you in the circuit court. I would think you have a civil bill. Yes it will say personal injuries summons. It should also say you have ten days to enter an appearance.

    I'm surprised your solicitor didn't advise you on the procedures, but you can look them up yourself on courts.ie which will explain it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,770 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    OP,

    This is factually incorrect

    I received a courts summons by post from my neighbour over a domestic issue.

    The gene pool here seems not to have experience of receiving undated court summons.

    Your solicitor seems to have vouched for its validity.

    I would lodge a counter claim

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    Thanks to all who have contributed to my post. I really appreciate your help. This is not something I have ever experienced and I was completely surprised by the actions of this person.

    My main question was about the fact that no court date has been issued on the summons. I have not got anyone's opinions are suggestions as to why this is the case.

    Some have speculated that this is not a genuine summons.

    Can anyone confirm, based on their experience that a summons can be created and sent out with no court date, which will followed if the plaintiff wants to in act this summons later.

    If not, I take it that nobody really knows this answer!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I have explained this already. Your neighbour is taking a civil case against you, go to courts.ie and look up the form 'personal injury summons '

    I can't believe your solicitor didn't explain this to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Nobody here saw this summons. Probably few have had cause to receive a summons on a domestic dispute with a neighbour. Every one of your questions was an easy ask for your solicitor who has experience and knows exactly what you received.



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    I know there can be annoyance reading posts, but you seem to becoming very frustrated. We are only discussing possible answers, so I would appreciate a bit of calm.

    Nobody or you Jim_Hodge has really given a reason or opinion why no court date appears on the summons, just that it seems irregular!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are you deliberately being a mong in ignoring @suvigirl ?


    Is this what you got? https://www.courts.ie/content/personal-injuries-summons



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    You cannot issue a summons for a PI claim without the leave of PIAB. For that to have happened, they would have either have to have gone through the PIAB process and not agreed to settle, or for the respondent to refuse to go through PIAB at the start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭JVince


    My guess is you have a Civil Bill.

    You need to enter an appearance to state you have grounds for defence.

    You then give reasons for this defence and you can at that point issue a counterclaim if you wish

    The court registrar then looks at it and in many cases a judge will also look and see if it should proceed to trial. They will see if the case can be mediated or settled without need for a trial

    If a trial is needed, the registrar will give you 21 days notice of the court date.


    Many aggressive types use civil bills to bully people and judges see through this. You have little to lose by entering an appearance (10 days - but not strict) and then outlining your defence (again a further 10 days, but not strict). To proceed to trial, the complainant will have to fork out a further €130 to the court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Sure. Might this be of help?


    Although I also found this


    so maybe something changed.


    Previous version was


    Perhaps the exception is just the medical negligence claims............which likely aren't relevant to the OP!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    The whole thing could be totally irrelevant to the OP! If it's true that his neighbour is particularly litigious, maybe he's banging out civil bills all over the neighbourhood.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Point is that I don't think he would be able to get a PI summons stamped and issued by the courts in the first place without the leave of PIAB. I don't have time to read through all the Court Rules and updating SIs



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    absolutely one can. Doesn't mean it will succeed obviously. Perhaps the piab only comes into it when evidence is given? Or maybe they don't deal with very low amounts?

    Either way, anyone can issue a civil bill.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's the High Court version. Circuit may be different?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Given you are giving me a Circuit court link, the relevant rule is Rule 5a of Order 5


    So it's basically the same as the RSC version



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    It's the same. Both were changed in 2017. The previous versions were more explicit. The newer ones appear to allow for the applicant to state why it did not go through PIAB. I am guessing that there is an exception for claims in medical negligence. That would make things consistent with the one I linked to previously. However the rules as stated on courts.ie are not necessarily up to date and you will have to refer to the relevant SIs for any changes. Those SIs are listed though


    The OP can ask his solicitor.


    It appears that under Rule 15 of Order 19 of RSC, that a defendant must raise their objection to any failure on that regard as a preliminary objection. So I suppose you could file in the hope that the respondent has an idiot solicitor who doesn't spot it and include an objection in their own pleadings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Well, given the OP has it in his hands, the applicant has either got the endorsement, or he has done it wrong.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    So given my quick perusal of the available material, it would appear that such a failure is a procedural failure only. It does not automatically extinguish jurisdiction. It's like trying to initiate something after the relevant Statute of Limitations has expired. So that the other side has to raise it. I think that that is the answer. There appears to be an exception for medical negligence claims but I couldn't find anything definitive on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    Hi OP,

    If its a Circuit Court summons here is a link for you to look at below. Its not a criminal matter or criminal summons otherwise An Garda Siochana would be involved but it is a Circuit court civil personal injuries claim against you.

    You have the right to counter claim and go to mediation also, you will need a solicitor to advise you on this matter.

    You mentioned you were in a neighbour dispute or domestic dispute as you put it? My advice is to keep a daily log of any incidents or CCTV with said neighbour and don't do or say anything to add fuel to the fire in the meantime.

    Maybe when its all done and dusted look at selling up, not worth the stress in living beside someone who goes legal.

    https://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/circuit-court-pi/



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    Thanks Donald Trump and all those who posted their advice and information, it was very interesting and educative.

    THANKS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Jesus, you try to help 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭shansey


    the amount of people giving incorrect advice/opinions out here is mad.

    Yes, some types of summons don't have a court date. You go through the process of Appearance, Defence (and possibly notice for particulars/discovery) before setting it down for trial.. then getting a date.

    Also, for a Personal Injury Summons, PIAB must give an authorisation before it issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks


    Great to see some real information, thank you.

    The respondent has the right to refuse the PIAB process. The PIAB then offers the claimant the option to proceed to court as it has no more involvement as one side does not accept the claim.

    As a previous post advised, You go through the process of Appearance, Defence (and possibly notice for particulars/discovery) before setting it down for trial.. then getting a date.

    The Court Registrar looks at the details of both the personal injury summons claim and the defence details to see if it should proceed to trial.

    I can only presume they have to deal with a lot of petty claims and disputes between neighbours that could waste court time.

    Does it necessarily go to court?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    You got real information and were told there was plenty of information on courts.ie

    I still can't believe that your solicitor didn't explain this to you......



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭jonnreeks




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    in fairness, you still haven't said why your solicitor hasn't made all clear to you.



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