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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Financing is the driver of increased costs, and since nuclear works on far longer loan periods it's brutal for them. Brutal.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sorry lad, you had your chance, multiple in fact, and you blew it

    Have a good one



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Leo laying the groundwork for the nitrates derogation disappearing completely




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Something we can look forward to emulating soon.

    Portugal just ran 6 straight days with renewables covering all power needs fully.


    From 31 October to 6 November, renewable energy production exceeded the country’s electricity needs for 149 hours straight, setting a new record.

    Over six consecutive days, 1102 GWh of electricity was generated compared to the 840 GWh the country consumed during the same period. Production surpassed the energy needs of households and industry by 262 GWh.

    The impact?

    “And we were producing with a positive impact to the consumers because the prices have dropped dramatically, almost to zero.”

    This particular week stood out, but it exemplifies a historic shift in energy sources. Natural-gas use for Portugal’s electricity production fell 39% year-over-year for the period from January to October, according to REN. That brought overall gas use to its lowest level since 2006.



  • Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    Thank God for global warming and a late Indian summer for Portugal, otherwise this would never have been achieved... apparently.

    As for an almost zero electricity bill... I somehow doubt that will be happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    It's of course all noise on a forum but if the government turned around tomorrow and said it was building a nuclear plant beside you, well we all know you would be putting in multiple planning permission complaints along with every other person in your county. Same with all the rest of the people on these threads.

    I'd have absolutely no problem with a nuclear plant in my back yard. If it came with community incentives all the better, though that wouldn't be a showstopper one way or another. A bunch of well paying jobs and a reliable electricity supply would be incentive enough. Having just dealt with a neighbour from hell taking four years to build a simple extension I'd prefer to be far enough away from any construction noise, but anything above 500 metres would be fine with me. I'd happily campaign in favour of it. Not everyone has absorbed the Green paranoia about nukes.

    Yes it is. Try telling the population an entire county could be made uninhabitable if an incident and see what percentage you would get in an approval.

    Try telling the population of a county that you're going to bury 3 million cubic metres of toxic waste containing heavy metals in their soil, protected only by a plastic membrane. Oh wait, that already happened in County Clare from coal burning at Moneypoint. The ash storage facility was full by 2014 and an additional 1.6 million cubic metre facility needed to be built.

    At full usage, Moneypoint can burn a giant 100 tonne railway car of coal every twenty minutes, seven thousand tonnes per day. The daily energy equivalent in uranium is the size of a bottle of coke. One day of Moneypoint output is 20,000 tonnes of CO2. The ash output is toxic forever due to heavy metals, and ten times more radioactive than the fuel used in a nuke to produce the same energy. And it's being dumped straight into landfill.

    Why aren't there people marching on the Dáil to protest? Possibly because they haven't been fed the same diet of propaganda in relation to other fuels as the anti-nuke stuff?

    Post edited by ps200306 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    The green lunatics won’t be happy until they turn everything outside of the m 50 into one massive national park.Leo has no interest in fighting for his country when it comes to the eu.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Farmers have rode the back of the politicians since the foundation of the state. Many are good custodians of the land, but some are not. We should recognise that and reward those who are creating the assets the state needs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I had already predicted people would say they would have no issue. You seem to own a house, you are happy that asset would be worthless? Even if you are still paying a mortgage on it.

    In terms of paying jobs and reliable electricity, well we already have that don’t we? When was the last outage not caused by a storm? 30 years ago?

    Green paranoia, I think you will find the paranoia has to do with the 2600km2 which is inhabitable for 20,000 years.

    Moneypoint is planned to close, so we are dumping wastage from creating electricity and the big plan is to create another power station with even worse output to dump? I suggest a different angle because that one will do the opposite to what you think it does



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Farming is taking responsibility, a lot more than people working outside farming who seem to think it’s everyone elses problem or sit all day on the web waffling about nuclear plants and then claim to have the answer to generating electricity.

    The easy target is the farmer and it’s certainly pushed by RTE etc….let start from a city point of view and restrict the size and weight of cars 👍


    the guys on the tweet, well he wants to ban all dogs from nearly all parks 🤔🤡



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Never forget Chernobyle was actually hours away from rendering much of western Europe uninhabitable. The outcome of that accident was a lucky escape.



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    no Farmers no food.it does not arrive in Dunnes etc by magic.I won’t live long enough to see the day that the world will be crying out for the real stuff and not the bugs or synthetic crap pushed on rte’s propaganda program the other nite.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Ireland farms primarily for export. Yours is a tired old argument which doesn't actually reflect the reality of Irish farming. The sad fact is we could stop farming in Ireland tomorrow and no one would starve. That's a situation I would like to see change - but it would require a wholesale move away from beef, lamb and dairy production.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Shoog


    An interesting fact that is often missed about wind Vs nuclear. In the UK the British government has guaranteed to buy the Hinckly C power at a fixed high price for 35 years. With wind the fixed guaranteed price lasts for just 10 years. That represents a 3x longer subsidy period for nuclear - which represent a substantial hidden cost of building nuclear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Oh I know but I didn't want to go too overboard.

    Bingo this is a huge problem. We are exporting food while importing food at the same time. If people want to reduce CO2 and "save the planet" then it's a lot better if they eat the food produced in Ireland than shipping in the latest craze food they seen on the web.

    This does not require a wholesale move away from what we already produce, well in my opinion anyway. The conditions in Ireland suit the production of some foods and not others. We should be moving more towards food that are in season to eat etc. Yes this will mean less selection in shops but we are all supposed to be saving the planet

    I would be interested to see what you think we would change to when you mention the wholesale move away? what did you have in mind?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Shoog


    You cannot live a healthy life with very high levels of consumption of beef, lamb and diairy. The very high levels of cancer and other chronic illnesses in Ireland is testimony to the outcomes of such a traditional diet.

    Ireland has not got the conditions to grow much of what it needs to feed itself so I do not see any particularly easy pathway towards a more sustainable agriculture which meets our essential needs. However the argument that Irish farmers should be left alone because they feed the nation is just rubbish. Farming in Ireland has always been treated as an export earner, we need to decide what we need our agricultural land to provide in terms of services to the nation and shift our insentives to achieve them. The simple reality is the sort of market gardening approach that would meet much of our fresh produce needs is cost uncompetitive because it is relatively labour intensive, unless we prioritize it in different ways it will never happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,581 ✭✭✭jackboy


    A country without farms has no future. Yes they could import for a period of time until something goes wrong like a war. Then everyone starves over one winter. Protecting farming is non negotiable for any responsible country.

    The issues with pollution coming from farms has been 100% driven by decades of government policy. Another area of incompetence. Bashing farmers is unfair. Better government policies and funding of farmers to implement these is the way to go. Getting rid of beef and dairy in Ireland would actually be another incompetent damaging decision due to the nature of land in Ireland so that really needs to be ruled out as an option.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    High levels of cancer across the World, all different diets.

    Im not saying Irish farmers should be left alone but the amount of finger pointing at farmers is incredible when you look at the lack of action for every other group. In terms of farming the amount of changes made in the last 30 year to help the environment is incredible, can any other industry say the same?

    You have people all over the web jumping up and down about farmers yet ask them to make a slight change in their own life and they fight against it. Millions have been spent by farmers to change how they work to protect the environment yet ask someone to spend a few hundred euro on attic insulation and see the answer? they would prefer to waffle about nuclear on the web while demanding the latest/greatest food at the shop all year round wrapped in plastic etc.

    In terms of labour intensive, farming in Ireland cannot hire people anymore. I know that for a fact. So trying to move towards a more labour intensive production with no workers is not going to work. Just look at Keelings for a high profile example, but a small farmer down the countryside can't get anyone to help them. Are the people talking about saving the planet going to head out into the fields and do hard labour? or sit on a laptop?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Considering that there were cracks discovered in the Belgian nuclear fleet some years ago and in the French fleet last year, but no widespread power outages resulted - that's a pretty baseless claim. Almost all have been repaired and returned to service since.

    We've had more system alerts to date on days wind underperformed or was non-existent and rode our luck (some data centres were turned down) so you're own question back, how long do you want to be without electricity for?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Ireland always has had disproportionately high levels of cancer, especially bowl cancer. It is somewhat exceptional in this regard.

    As I said, I see no easy pathway forward to a more sustainable agriculture - but what I will predict is that farmers will be incentivised to prioritize water quality, flood management and biodiversity enhancement. As custodian of all our natural assets farmers have more responsibilities than just producing food.



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    That’s before the UK costs jumped 60% this week due to failed wind auction

    Literally no one stepped up to build offshore wind

    Offshore floating is now almost exactly twice the cost of Sizewell C in UK, which itself was about double (because of new tech) what Dubai paid for Korean reactors (and what Poland agreed paid same reactors being built there)

    Sorry mate you greens have “blew it” now

    You can keep pulling out of your rear wildly outdated reports from previous year, but the world has changed

    Its a sign of a weak mind that is not able to adapt to new facts, it’s also a sign of a religion or cult when one is attached to outdated dogma



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Shoog


    ... and you seem incapable of seeing it has impacted nuclear just the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    Except it doesn’t as nuclear does not need as much construction materials, steel, concrete, aluminium and rare earths in a size of a standard power plant compared to literally thousands of turbines needed to produce same only a third of the time

    nor does it need specialised installation and expertise for maintenance too out in the harshest possible environments of salty Atlantic sea

    the latest ones being built in Poland by same Koreans who built its Dubai and Korea is set in stone, Sweden is also about to go all nuclear



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Another eNGO sucking on the Irish taxpayers tit. Mr. Fogarty has form, how about turn the West of Ireland over to the wolves, bears and lynx.

    But returning large carnivores to the wild in Ireland is a divisive idea. The Green Party in the Republic of Ireland has called for wolves to be reintroduced after 250 years of absence, though there are no official plans to do so yet. It's possible that wolf reintroduction could help in the fight against climate change. Perhaps through controlling non-native deer populations, the grazing of forested and mountainous areas would reduce. That in turn might increase levels of vegetation and the amount of stored carbon, for example.


    But no-one really knows whether this benefit would arise and some say bringing wolves back could be dangerous for people and livestock. Ireland, after all, does not have a vast expanse of wilderness akin to the Yellowstone National Park in the US, where conservationists successfully reintroduced wolves in 1995.


    And yet for some environmentalists in Ireland, there's no better topic of discussion.

    "If I were to focus my efforts on one thing, I would talk about wolves," says Pádraic Fogarty, author and campaign officer for the Irish Wildlife Trust. source



    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    What an insular and indeed hypocritic view. I'm assuming then that you only consume food grown elsewhere?

    Let's say we do stop farming our quality produce in Ireland. That food is consumed somewhere so there are consequences. Similarly, what if wherever your coffee bean, grape, avocado, fig or whatever else we can't produce here takes a similar attitude. Most likely it will result in higher prices as other suppliers strive to fill the gap, likely increasing production in less favourable conditions elsewhere (rainforest deforestation or similar) and potentially longer shipping routes. That's in a world trending over 10 billion people.

    But yeah, Ireland should stop farming because a few idiots on the Internet think it'll reduce global carbon footprints. Last time I checked, you can't eat rewetted bogs or a few pine trees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's not the grid that's the problem, it's the lack of reliable generation being brought online.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    We wouldn’t have to build power lines in low density populated areas to connect remote unreliable wind farms (the hypocrisy is actually hilarious when one just stops for a second to think about it) if there was a single plant with 6 reactors in a single industrial location that can already support large electricity production such as moneypoint

    Yet another cost of wind that is externalised is having to carpet bomb the countryside with power lines or spend 10x to bury them



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