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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The E.U scrapped milk quotas in 2015. From 2016 - 2021 the dairy herd grew by 16%. 2021 - 2022 it grew by 0.3%

    So who were the main drivers of increases in dairy cow numbers, a FF/FG government or the E.U.?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    We tried that already, it was fairly successful up until the EU told us we had to allow "competition" into the market and prices have been on the up ever since.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    Which makes the central question even more important if the taxpayer is directly on hook in your vision for Irelands future

    how much is this future (Option A in your other post) with offshore wind, solar, hydrogen, power cables everywhere and batteries

    going to cost?

    Back of the envelope calculations put it well into hundreds of billions every two dozen years for the taxpayer



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The grid has not built out new HVAC lines that are necessary to allow optimal placement of wind farms. That means most windfarms are installed in suboptimal locations. The government applied little policy pressure to overcome this hurdle and we are still waiting for cross country HVAC lines to the west.

    Even if you have to curtail windfarms for more of the time - you are still able to put more wind into baseload if the overall capacity is higher. You still need the backup for times when it isn't but for far more of the time we would be primarily drawing on wind power.



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    Who pays for the grid having to accommodate wind farms in remote locations and whose land these connections go thru?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    What you've described is 100% not on the grid operators though. They tried to build Grid West nearly 20 years ago. Do you know what happened to it? Well, it wasn't the grid operator that put the brakes on it. It was local politicians and TDs that scuppered those very solid plans.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    There were zero Alerts issued by RTE or Elia. Zero.

    We had one this week alone and asked industrial consumers to reduce consumption plus we had to rely on full imports from GB, mainly because renewables weren't producing.

    So if anything completely breaks your argument it was the Alert just 3 days ago.

    Relying on a large number of distributed plants isn't any better than the small number you are so concerned about, especially if the source of excitation for that larger number isn't blowing or it happens to be night time. We've over 100 years experience relying on a handful of thermal plant without significant issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It is if you believe it was responsible for the major increase in dairy cow numbers, because the actual figures show it wasn`t.

    But then figures are not your strong point, so I can see how you could imagine it was.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Yes, which in no way contradicts what I said, in fact it confirms it. The government didn't consider it a high enough priority to push it through which is what they can do with strategically important infrastructure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭Shoog


    It was what facilitated it. Government policy put a rocket under the herd expansion - yet they already knew we were failing to clean up our polluted rivers and estuaries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    HVAC is an acronym that refers to Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning.

    No one refers to AC infrastructure as HVAC except those who don't know what they're talking about.

    Where are these allegedly more optimal locations you speak of? Most of the best onshore sites that aren't in Special Protection Areas are already taken according to WEI. Hence the look offshore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Have you checked any of the actual stats or talked to anyone who has it installed?

    Like a lot of people on these thread your “knowledge” seems to be based on a few bits of info you got google.

    I can make a suggestion, maybe look at the results of the systems that people have installed and then comment on them. Honestly I doubt you will, I fully expect some random link you find on google to “prove” you know what you are talking about. Similar to the person earlier trying to tell me about wood pellet stoves.

    Majority of people you will find in regards to solar have done huge investigation before purchase and have the TCO already worked out so they can quickly give you the information if you so desire



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Harvest 2020 did facilitate dairy growth, however it was likely to happen anyway once EU quotas were lifted.

    Water quality in Ireland hasn't deteriorated in the last 15 years so it is incorrect to draw inferences linking the two. A longer term analysis of the impacts is needed.

    The number of poor quality water bodies has been declining, according to the EPA stats.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Contrary to what you've been peddling and general consensus amongst the population, the grid operators (Eirgrid and ESB) actually know what they are doing. Unfortunately, they are operating with both hands and legs tied behind their backs by a combination of government policy and a regulator that doesn't know it's arse from its elbow.

    If you ask the actual engineers working in our utilities they will tell you exactly what is needed to maintain and grow our energy usage for a reliable grid. Here's a clue, more SNSP isn't the answer right now and won't be until major technical problems are solved.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Areas in the nitrate derogations have seen consistent declines in water quality which the EPA have primarily attributed to agriculture. This is why the derogation has been reduced.

    The government had choices about prioritizing it obligations under the water framework directive or encouraging expansion of the dairy herd to take advantage of the quotas removal. They chose diary in the full knowledge of what the consequences would be for water quality (and biodiversity as a side issue).

    They got the derogation to try to game the system and assured the EU that they had plans to control run off pollution. They lied and only started to pay attention when the EU got threatening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Now that you've made an argument against something I didn't say, perhaps go back and read what I actually wrote.

    At grid level Solar is pointless in Ireland. Couldn't make it any clearer than that.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    Some of the posters made a big deal about NAMA in other threads

    but when confronted with a simple question of how much their hot air driven solution to Irelands electricity needs will cost, nothing nada, thimbleweeds

    yet it’s easily multiples of NAMA in cost every 25 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    In a discussion forum facts and fiqure trump comic book fantasies every time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,014 ✭✭✭Shoog


    And you me lad would know all about fantasy accounting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    i posted about thousands of houses which you responded about heating a tank of water.

    Now maybe you don’t actually know the thousands of houses are not using it to just heat a tank of water? Or is that what you think it’s for?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Our current grid operates at rough three 9's of uptime. How can that be maintained with a power source with a 12% capacity factor?

    I don't care what someone who has a rooftop full of panels and 5 or 10kW of battery storage can do. It's analogous to someone trying to power the floodlights in a stadium with a bicycle dynamo.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    Here is your chance to step up and provide the figures and costings for the 37GW offshore wind + grids + storage + hydrogen



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    That's why these numbers have to be seen in relation to the transportation/transition and uptake unlike solids like coal or even nuclear which can be much easier regulated. This relation is the bottleneck of wind and solar and unless big advances in storage ie, batteries are made talking about gW is pretty useless. You can only talk about gWh if you actually do the equation with the other end incorporated otherwise it is simply floating. Like the electricity company states on your bill and/or if you are running solar panels tying together production and consumption. Electricity is input+output and everything in between is an important factor especially running an electricity grid system that is super delicate and needs to be stable.

    Now, if you want to use the direct electricity from wind turbines to power say, hydrogen production (as proposed by some) those 'in between' stages are stacked lossy even before storing and transporting the troublesome hydrogen and the whole delicate infrastructure.

    Every factor needs to be considered unless you are so biased ideologically that you have actually devised deflection and negation techniques as witnessed on this platform and are easily spotted..

    On a side note: most people do not know how weird electricity is. For instance, it is a field coupled with magnetism. That field does NOT run through a cable like water through a pipe like most assume.The electrons inside a wire hardly move. Bizarre but true..

    Post edited by deholleboom on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Why would you make an untrue statement like that. A tiny portion of Irish beef goes to America and China. The majority of our beef goes to UK and Europe.

    But then since when did facts stop a "green" ideologist making a statement.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Curious that you didn't like it when I gave you facts and figures that proved a claim of yours was false



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    So you have no idea about micro-generation, no experience and no information on how people are using it, yet want to lecture people about large scale solar deployments?

    See the issue here?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The numbers around the growth of solar here are truly amazing

    600 homes a week installing panels

    Large scale commercial installations now in progress

    Businesses all across the country installing them on rooftops

    It's honestly looking like we'll smash every target, 5GW by 2025, 8GW by 2030



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