Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

The intention is to remove the Palestinian population from Gaza. If they can’t forcibly expel them they will make Gaza uninhabitable by destroying the housing stock, infrastructure, everything. They are literally bulldozing Gaza out of existence through their policy of Bomb, Bulldoze, Wipeout.

This current war has lasted decades what do you mean

Claiming that they have 'no choice' but to do it in order to keep Israel safe. It seems Israel's safety will come at the expense of an entire population of 2m people being ethnically cleansed of their land.

Fairly graphic and accurate description of the barbaric act of cutting someones throat. Given your medical knowledge could you describe the effects of over pressure from an explosion on a human body, especially a childs. Maybe describe how the organs are basically liquidised. While we're at it you might descibe the feelings of terror when the building your in collapses due to a JDAM strike and you find yourself buried alive, wedged up against the body parts of your child/parent/sibling. The pilot flying the F35 or the Predator drone gets no less of a free pass than the guy hacking someones neck.

The root case cannot be tackled as Hama's was unwilling to talk/ negotiate with Israel. The Camp David summit in 2000 between Yasser Arafat and Ehud Barak hosted by Clinton was the last real attempt and that showed that the Palestinians were incapable of coming to an agreement. Barak conceded, conceded and conceded but Arafat never gave what his expectations for a settlement were and when it reached the final stages he walked away.

How can you negotiate with an entity who's raisin de etre is the complete destruction of Israel. Look at there cry ''from the river ( Jordan) to the sea Palestine will be free'' maybe some chanting that do not understand stand the meaning but most do and those who originally started shouting it did as well.

Hama's has had nearly twenty years to do something positive for the Palestinian people instead it has created a labyrinth of tunnels to rival the London Underground.

The reality is Israel can only look at this from a security viewpoint as both Hamas and Hezbollah as well as most other factions want the destruction of Israel. Unfortunately Hamas by its action and the Palestinian people by there acceptance of Hamas within them have brought the old Roman curse of ''Iron and ashes'' down upon them.

This could end of the hostages were released and if Hamas left Gaza.tge problem for the Palestinian's even if there was a solution tomorrow morning, the Palestinians themselves are unwilling to enforce that settlement.

In 2000 at Camp David they were offered Gaza and the West Bank with an overhead road/ railway connecting them with certain security considerations for Israel. They refused that solution. I do not think they will get that offer again.

I saw a video where a anti zionist Rabbi was describing how the Palestinians are not antisemetic, they are anti-settler. I think that is the greatest stroke Israel has pulled, equating being against settlement expansion and the treatment of Palestinians with antisemitism. If the settlers were Pastafarians from the Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster I'm pretty sure Hamas and the other organisations would exist. It allows them to shut down all legitimate criticism of their actions and is used on this thread on a daily basis. I think people are coping on to it and getting sick of the vicitm mentality Israel constantly deployes.

Or from those chanting from the river to the sea.

In any conflict there is information and misinformation. Many on Palestinian side here grab onto 1-2 sound bites where there was an error made in the heat of the moment by an Israeli politician. Many are trying to turn the deaths that happened on October 7 as being partly or mainly Israeli action.

The Shani Louk disinformation campaign is similar, the harping on about there is no proof that she was beheaded is immaterial, she was savagely murdered, her body was used as a war trophy and paraded in her undergarments. I suspect her body was washed as her throat was cut ( Petrous bone no longer in her head) and there is little sign of blood on her body, it was also probably the reason her dress was removed.

But the way certain posters carry on here excusing the savagery of Hamas on October 7th shows there total contempt for Israel and there anti semitism even though they like to think they are not.

War is not pleasant but if the Palestinian people will not police there own territory then unfortunately Israel will. I suspect that Israel is going to clear or virtually clear Gaza and disperse the population I do not agree with it but I can see there reasoning.

Negotiating is like a Tango dance it takes two to do it. Hamas has shown it is unwilling to negotiate it wanted war it has got war, it taught it actions were a recruitment for it. Israel has decided enough is enough. If the Palestinians and the Arabs in general are going to continue to accept attacks on Israel then Israel will carry out a security solution

Will you give them a chance. They're busy digging the tunnel they have to find to prove their claims.

One observation I will make about some - not all obviously, but a select few - posters in this thread is that they treat hearsay, anecdotal accounts and pure speculation about Israeli actions as cast-iron gospel.

Anything posted that shows Hamas in the same light is played down, ignored, called lies, propaganda, dismissed, demands for unrealistic levels of "proof", et al.

Then the goalposts get moved. "There are clearly no weapons here". Weapons are found. "Israel planted them". Because of course a radical Jihadi group, reponsible for a terror attack launched with the sole objective of killing as many civlians as possible, a group that uses its own civlians as human shields, would never do that.

I'm not talking about Palestine or Palestinians or what they are suffering. I am specifically talking about Hamas.

There was even a survey conducted from within Palestine by a local, Arab think-tank that showed generally strong support for Hamas the the Oct 7th attacks and immediately one poster was trying to discredit it rather than actually talk about it.

Hamas is a barbaric, fundementalist Jihadi organisation that wants to wipe Israel off the map. It does not care for the lives of Palestinian civilians. It does not care about human rights or womens rights.

Most of them don't care about their own lives for that matter and are happy to sacrifice themselves if it means killing jews.

That's not to say anything about Hamas makes the death toll of Palestinians OK or justifiable, but don't try and downplay what Hamas is, and the fact that there is huge support for Hamas and what it did on October 7th, not only in Gaza but the West Bank too.

I mean we have a video of that guy at UCD shouting Allahu Akbar and screaming that we will do October 7th over and over again.

It would be easy and logical to say "that's not OK" regardless of your opinions on the conflict. But of course a few select posters are straight away into trying to hold everyone else accountable, and inventing scenarios that would contextually somehow make it OK.

That Palestine does not support Hamas is a complete and utter lie. Some posters here would have you believe it's a black and white situation and Israel is responsible for everything wrong in Palestine, historically and currently, and Israel is the one preventing any solution, then and now. That is also completely not true.

Nothing about the death toll in Palestine is OK. Thinking Israel is committing war crimes, is not doing remotely enough to minimise casulties, bears a large shoulder of blame for the conflict, or whatever - completely fine and rational opinions.

But a few posters on here are so anti-Israel that they are almost pro-Hamas, whether intentional or not.

So Israel bombed 2 schools today. Scores more children dead. There is seemingly no depravity both sides will sink to.

And some posters will condemn you as a Hamas supporter for criticising the bombing of schools.

Do the Ray-bans help?

Great analytical post of what is the situation on the ground there.