Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Or from those chanting from the river to the sea.

In any conflict there is information and misinformation. Many on Palestinian side here grab onto 1-2 sound bites where there was an error made in the heat of the moment by an Israeli politician. Many are trying to turn the deaths that happened on October 7 as being partly or mainly Israeli action.

The Shani Louk disinformation campaign is similar, the harping on about there is no proof that she was beheaded is immaterial, she was savagely murdered, her body was used as a war trophy and paraded in her undergarments. I suspect her body was washed as her throat was cut ( Petrous bone no longer in her head) and there is little sign of blood on her body, it was also probably the reason her dress was removed.

But the way certain posters carry on here excusing the savagery of Hamas on October 7th shows there total contempt for Israel and there anti semitism even though they like to think they are not.

War is not pleasant but if the Palestinian people will not police there own territory then unfortunately Israel will. I suspect that Israel is going to clear or virtually clear Gaza and disperse the population I do not agree with it but I can see there reasoning.

Negotiating is like a Tango dance it takes two to do it. Hamas has shown it is unwilling to negotiate it wanted war it has got war, it taught it actions were a recruitment for it. Israel has decided enough is enough. If the Palestinians and the Arabs in general are going to continue to accept attacks on Israel then Israel will carry out a security solution

One observation I will make about some - not all obviously, but a select few - posters in this thread is that they treat hearsay, anecdotal accounts and pure speculation about Israeli actions as cast-iron gospel.

Anything posted that shows Hamas in the same light is played down, ignored, called lies, propaganda, dismissed, demands for unrealistic levels of "proof", et al.

Then the goalposts get moved. "There are clearly no weapons here". Weapons are found. "Israel planted them". Because of course a radical Jihadi group, reponsible for a terror attack launched with the sole objective of killing as many civlians as possible, a group that uses its own civlians as human shields, would never do that.

I'm not talking about Palestine or Palestinians or what they are suffering. I am specifically talking about Hamas.

There was even a survey conducted from within Palestine by a local, Arab think-tank that showed generally strong support for Hamas the the Oct 7th attacks and immediately one poster was trying to discredit it rather than actually talk about it.

Hamas is a barbaric, fundementalist Jihadi organisation that wants to wipe Israel off the map. It does not care for the lives of Palestinian civilians. It does not care about human rights or womens rights.

Most of them don't care about their own lives for that matter and are happy to sacrifice themselves if it means killing jews.

That's not to say anything about Hamas makes the death toll of Palestinians OK or justifiable, but don't try and downplay what Hamas is, and the fact that there is huge support for Hamas and what it did on October 7th, not only in Gaza but the West Bank too.

I mean we have a video of that guy at UCD shouting Allahu Akbar and screaming that we will do October 7th over and over again.

It would be easy and logical to say "that's not OK" regardless of your opinions on the conflict. But of course a few select posters are straight away into trying to hold everyone else accountable, and inventing scenarios that would contextually somehow make it OK.

That Palestine does not support Hamas is a complete and utter lie. Some posters here would have you believe it's a black and white situation and Israel is responsible for everything wrong in Palestine, historically and currently, and Israel is the one preventing any solution, then and now. That is also completely not true.

Nothing about the death toll in Palestine is OK. Thinking Israel is committing war crimes, is not doing remotely enough to minimise casulties, bears a large shoulder of blame for the conflict, or whatever - completely fine and rational opinions.

But a few posters on here are so anti-Israel that they are almost pro-Hamas, whether intentional or not.

So Israel bombed 2 schools today. Scores more children dead. There is seemingly no depravity both sides will sink to.

While you make a point don't generalise all Palestinians. Many are ruled by the HAMAS terrorist dictatorship against their will and many are brainwashed with hatred from a school age. No matter how dark the hour there is still hope for peace.

I've no doubt if the IRA launched HAMAS level attacks in terms of brutality and casualty rates Ireland would no longer exist as an independent state.

And some posters will condemn you as a Hamas supporter for criticising the bombing of schools.

Do the Ray-bans help?

Great analytical post of what is the situation on the ground there.

jmeire, as probably the only person on here with actual real world experience of conflict, and of being in that general region, what do you think about there being tunnels per se?

To be honest, I would see the tunnels as a quite logical response. The Israelis have safe houses and bunkers. Palestinians have been under siege for over a decade with constant attacks from their belligerent neighbour. I don't think that anyone who resided or spent a lot of time in a regular building would survive very long if they became a target for the Israelis.

When the Ukrainians were bedded down at their last stand in the Azovstal steel works, it was in tunnels deliberately designed to provide shelter and a place of refuge in case of attack.

People can point to what Hamas did, and nobody is excusing that in any way, shape or form. But I can't equate the mere existence of tunnels as being the logic that thousands of Gazans must die.

BTW, I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm genuinely asking your opinion.

Absolutely. What is especially macabre is the speculation of what happened to victims. Not just by posters here but we have had graphic descriptions of precisely what happened to victims and when by, for example, one person, even though, the events that occurred were witnessed by nobody.

This is not to diminish the suffering of victims but to call out the disinformation of those intent on stoking hatred of Palestinians.

Deflection failure:

User's argument stands golden. Israel's own rhetoric will hurt them for generations as it has for generations.

I gave you a physical analysis of what happened to Shani Louk you choose to disrespect her death and treat it as if it did not happen.

My evidence was never exposed, I got admonished for being too graphic. Nobody had presented any scenario where part of her inner skull was left at the murder site.

I will go further and explain how come the bone was removed. After cutting her throat and letting her bleed out a group of these animals decided to use her as a war trophy. As her brains and other cranial material would have got on there clothes and in there jeep they probably used a knife or something similar to scoop it out of her head and this dislodged the Petrous part of the temporal bone.

It was not a grenade, it was not an explosion, it was not an Israeli agent it was a Hamas savage.

I am not sure you read this post.

But Homelander explains quite clearly that the general population in Gaza support Hamas.

"Have you called out any of the Israeli disinformation? Why did they feel the need to use images of non Israeli victims of a different conflict and claim they were Hamas victims?"

Have you a link to this story.? Which Israeli put this picture up on the internet?

Have they been fired from their job?Were they an independent actor?

Where is this story described in full?

Countries do love their sea chants!