Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

No?

I wouldn't support the IDF/Mossad "taking him out".

I wouldn't support if they blew up any bus, anywhere, unless it was a bus carrying the leadership of Hamas on a weekend retreat.

I know what you're getting at, but I don't know why you are asking. I'm not the IDF. I'm not a spokesperson, defender of, or cheerleader for the IDF either. I don't know how people who make decisions like that - in any side, in any conflict, in any war - sleep at night, but that is their business to account for, not mine.

To answer the other poster who asked something similar - and I've no idea why - no I absolutely would not think it OK if those people watching the bombing of Gaza in their deck chairs got a "knock on the door".

Nor do I support, condone, or think it's anything other than sick to take any joy in the bombing of Gaza, and in a general sense feel the same whether you are an Israel celebrating what the IDF is doing, or a Palestinian celebrating what Hamas did on Oct 7th.

Some people have a completely bizarre idea that this is like the Premier league where you have to have a side. I don't have any side. I'm not Israel. I have no vested interest in Israel whatsoever, I do not endorse, condone, support anything Israel does or has done.

What I am is a realist who understands the Israel/Palestine question is not, and has never been, some black or white thing that can be reduced to the infantile levels it is being reduced to by some people (I am not saying you, I mean in a general sense).

I included the screenshot as it is a page that updates live. So it will be replaced with a different atrocity when Israel commits the next one. Could be an hour or could be in a few minutes.

My original reason for asking was that a week or two ago an Israeli airstrike killed 80 Palestinians at a market in an area they were told to move to, and excused it by claiming they were targeting one Hamas operative.

So if you support Israel doing those things on Gazan territory, It is a fair question as to whether you would support them doing it on Irish territory.

People don't have to have a "side". They may be only trying to shout "stop". In reality, it is only Israel that is active in an offensive sense at the minute.

You would imagine wrong.Any competent journalist would give a right of response to the people or department involved in the story.

This is commonplace on CNN etc

Eg "we have reached out to .... but they did not return our call"

It is called professional journalism or accountable journalism.

On this thread anyone can say what they want but if the story cannot be verified it counts for very little.

You may not have done it, but others definitely have excused (even expressed explicit approval for) such actions. I simply asked you the question and you answered and I explained why I asked it.

Now that's worth comparing with the other poll to see what sort of picture we can deduce regarding support for Hamas.

It's a smaller poll, but it puts strong support at 30 percent, the other poll was 60 percent. Impossible to know which is more accurate or reflective of reality but the strong support element is an important statistic.

I would imagine conducting polls like that aren't the easiest thing in Gaza at the best of times, no more than the guys who do the street interviews and polls in Russia about sentiment over Ukraine.

John Oliver had a good explanation of the current Israeli agression

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9PKQbkJv8&pp=ygUMSXNyZWFsIGhhbWFz

I couldn't understand a word any of them were shouting. Two mouthpieces imo. I doubt anyone could hear clearly what was being shouted.

Why would you think this poster is the only one with real world experience of conflict? There are a few posters I can think of who have that experience.

I also think perhaps you're mixed up, since Israel left Gaza in the good hands of Hamas, Israel have constantly been attacked by them and have had to defend themselves, as they have done since 1948.

All good. More dead kids in the latest ep of the dead kids show.

Israel has killed more Palestinians in the last 6 weeks than Palestinians have killed Israeli's since the foundation of Israel in 1948.

They seem to be bombing refugee camps for fun. Maybe it is actually is genocide.

"Since mid-October 2023, over 33,551 cases of diarrhea have been reported. Over half of these are among children under age five -- a significant increase compared to an average of 2000 cases monthly in children under five throughout 2021 and 2022"

For anyone that might be unaware, diarrhea is the second largest killer of under fives in the world. Having water supplies cut off will almost certainly guarantee a high number of deaths in this regard.

A third of Gaza is now either destroyed or damaged.

"The humanitarian crisis in Potocari, the burning of homes in Srebrenica and Potocari, the terrorisation of Bosnian Muslim civilians, the murder of thousands of Bosnian Muslim civilians, in Potocari or in carefully orchestrated mass scale executions, and the forcible transfer of the women, children and elderly out of the territory controlled by the Bosnian Serbs, constitute persecutory acts."

"Intent by the Bosnian Serb forces to target the Bosnian Muslims of Srebrenica as a group is further evidenced by their destroying homes of Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica and Potocari1336 and the principal mosque in Srebrenica soon after the attack."

Intent of genocide was defined in the Serbian trials, by the same measure they can be applied here too.

So much of what is happening is incredibly depressing. It really is. Major governments in Europe and the EU itself giving the thumbs up to Israel from the very get go rather than counselling for pause and a more focused response has been sickening. So too has been US support. Not just that they're giving so much military support to Israel, we always knew they were going to do that. But the almost gleeful way that Biden has supported them with only mealy mouthed comments on Palestinian suffering. The censuring of Rashida Tlaib was another very dark mark from the US side. If Biden contests next years election, I hope he wins it because all he has done really is the same any of them are going to do and the alternative, a Republican President in todays world is an infinitely worse prospect.

But the most depressing element of this, as you said yourself, has been 'The Israelis are showing a distressing level of cruelty and inhumanity to their fellow man.'

The phrase 'Never Again' was held in such reverence for the last 80 years as people acknowledged the suffering of the Jewish community and we somehow believed that collectively we would work to prevent such a thing happening again. I know there's been cases of similar brutality meted out on communities since then (Rwanda/Kosovo/Myanmar/Sri Lanka) to name just a few, but to see actual Jewish people say pretty much the same thing about Palestinians, their community and country now as the Nazi's said about them has come close to dissolving any hope I personally held that the lessons of the Jewish suffering had been learnt.

The warmongers in Israel disgrace the memory of those who died in the holocaust. And I don't say that lightly.

I've only just seen this post.

CNN posted earlier today that the IDF 'probably' placed guns in the locations in the Al-Shifa hospital in which they were found. Also today it has come out that Israel response to the Hamas attack on the 7th of October resulted in the deaths of Israeli's.

Time and time and time again over the last several weeks the Israeli narrative has changed, shifted, been deleted, or proven to be false. People questioning official narratives on here have been proven that it is wise to do so. This is based on the reality of how events have unfurled.

If possible, with respect to prior to Oct 7th, what evidence is there to suggest that it is a complete and utter lie that Palestinian does not support Hamas? I know you referenced a report that apparently was countered and you disagree with that fact rather than it just being accepted as fact. As I've just said, we've seen time and again that information presented has been false or twisted, or a flat out lie. Elections were last held in Gaza in 2006, that's 17 years ago. The youngest person who voted in them is probably 34 or 35 now in an area where the median age is just 18 and 65% of the population are under 24. And all this is after Hamas received just 44% of the vote in 2007 (Fatah received 41%).

Given the volume of protests there have been in support of the Palestine movement worldwide, there's been remarkably few cases of extremists at these marches calling for Israel's destruction, of course these people exist, but to suggest that this implies that this is what the entirety of the people of Gaza want is without basis. And we have seen Israeli supporters, outlets and officials say equally heinous statements about Palestine and the Palestinians. Except that that is a government minister or Body saying it in a professional capacity rather than some singular errant protestor at a march somewhere.

Given what has happened in the last month or so, we can no longer say what the Palestinians view of Hamas was prior to Oct 7th, the water has been muddied too much with Israel's actions. How could anyone not understand how someone would be inclined to side with anyone who might give them a chance to avenge their hurt and loss? What we do know is that that Nethanyahu knew that an emboldened Hamas would help Israel achieve its goals and here we are, watching them ransack parts of Gaza and plan its flag on top of buildings.

And for the nth time, understanding where and how Hamas came from is not pro-Hamas, no matter how frequently it is claimed to be the case. It is simply acknowledging the facts of the situation. Before this conflict, I disagreed with Israel's behaviour, its flouting of UN resolutions, its continued transgressions with respect to settlements, it's defacto control of Gaza and it's undermining of Palestinian civilians within Israel. I now see Israel under its current guise of what is an acknowledged right wing government as a rogue state and as I've expressed repeatedly on here, I worry about what that will mean for Jewish people worldwide and conscientious people within Israel including the families of hostages who are calling for a ceasefire.