Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Yes, it does seem ludicrous, but these are far more than tunnels. They are designed and built to survive in and fight from. Bear in mind that whatever Israel built was vastly increased and improved on since 2005 after they left. You only need stores or other chambers to be linked. And wide enough of course to move missiles etc. They are storing fuel, they have armories, explosives, food stores, kitchens, toilets, hospital facilities, generators + solar power, hoists to lift the missiles to their firing points. etc. They had all the time they needed, and of course money was not the issue. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are a lot of surprises waiting in these tunnels, and it will take some time to check and clear them all, and some will never be reached, the ones that are 2-300 feet deep. Nealy 4 weeks in, and how much of the tunnels have been checked? They made a beeline for the hospital because they believed that Hamas had a main command and control center under neath it, but whatever Hamas did have there, was long gone by the time the IDF got to them. The tunnel's story still has a long way to go, I think.

It's genuinely amazing reading people on this thread twisting themselves into knots trying to defend Israel's atrocoties when the Israeli's themselves have no qualms at all talking about ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza.

I just wish the people defending Israel would have the courage to call it what it is, a white European colonisation of a country in the MIddle East. Israel is stronger,they are backed by the worlds only super power for strategic reasons and they will eventually eradicate all the Palestinians and we will be reading books like "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee" written about the plight of the Palestinian people. Drop the rubbish about a returning people and all the other obfuscating to call it what it is. Oct 7th was the excuse to eradicate Gaza, they'll provoke the people of the West Bank into a response then eradicate them.

Ok heres my post again:

So far, the IDF have only searched an extremely small area of tunnels beneath the hospital and basically, only scratched the surface. It's also very possible that if Hamas had been using the tunnel directly under the hospital, then it would have been "cleaned of any real evidence before the attack on the 7th. Hamaz knew very well what would happen after the attack and planned for such events. The IDF knew very well some areas of the tunnels, the part that they had built themselves, but the newer additions? That I'm not so sure about, but time will tell.

From the safety, security and invisibility of working hundreds of klms of tunnels buried between 2 & 3 hundred feet below ground, sure you could. Hamaz has moved equipment, men and supplies, and at their leisure at that. No problem. Bring in the night shift. Thats not a joke by the way. How do you think that hundreds and hundreds klms of tunnels were built???

Whether its possible or not for Israel to be defeated, does not matter. What matter is what Israeli's believe, and if they think they are under threat, that's enough for them. Just look at how long Putin has held power, all based on the lie that he is saving Russians from the Ukrainian Nazi's?

PARA 1. They have only searched a fraction of the tunnels under the Hospital; Verifiably true. Unless you know otherwise?

PARA 2. The known facts about the tunnels bear this statement out.

PARA 3, True, in my opinion, but feel free to put forward your explanation for Israels position.

Your comment re standing beside vehicle with weapons explosives all round.:- Its obvious that the IDF bomb / VBIED squad gave that whole area, especially the vehicle a very good examination, before they declared it safe, and it was only after they gave the all clear, that anyone was allowed in. Thats the same time-consuming task that will have to be performed over every inch of all of these Tunnels. All of the weapons etc lying on the ground are all in safe mode.

From your comments, it's obvious that you have never been in that kind of situation, I guess, which would explain them.

Its called defending, when someone else attacks you.

Given recent ( and even not so recent) Israeli history, making it legal to kill people seems just like a mere formality...

That's the excuse used for the actions of child abusers, "it was done to me so that's why I do it"

It's completely understandable that they are extremely defensive and they do not like to show any weaknesses. Given that the Jewish people have always been the most persecuted people, it's completely understandable.

Imagine going through the horror of the holocaust, finally the world acknowledged their suffering, when they were afforded one single state, in order for them to feel safe, their neighbours immediately started attacking them!

It's not difficult to see how as a people they are so defensive. They clearly cannot rely on anyone else for their safety, so they do everything they believe they should in order to defend themselves.

Sure, and I'm making a statement about the Israeli justification, and mindset. And that is a long way from saying that I condone or approve of it. My view is quite the opposite in fact. Now what would you think about it? Israeli motivation / justification, I mean, which was the question I was trying to answer,?

Well, if Israel didn't have the Iron Dome protection when Hamas launched 20'000 missiles between 2005 up to 7the dec, I am sure that the figures would not be so skewed in favor of Palestine having the highest death toll. So even if the outcomes were different, the intent was still the same. This is just a comment on the stats and not to be taken as approval ( or not) for the actions of either side.

Depends on what you mean by "agree".

Israel said they agreed with the 1967 UN resolution but have repeatedly violated it, and continue to do it on an ongoing basis by their occupation of land allocated for Palestinians.

Why do you keep repeating the same debunked point. The IDF claimed to know the exact layout of the command and center under the hospital. They were giving briefing up to a week ago that Sinwar was hiding under the hospital. They claimed to have spies operating inside the hospital feeding them information about the current situation. If that is the case then how could Hamas dismantle a sophisticated command center and just disappear without the IDF being informed. It doesn't make sense

Now either their intelligence was faulty or they were lying . I have no doubt Hamas have tons of tunnels and a command center somewhere , but all the indications so far are suggest it's not under the hospital. If it was, given the intelligence the IDF claimed to have on the command center, they'd have found more than a few rusty rifles by now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/12/hamas-planning-terror-gaza-israel/?itid=mr_national%20security_2

Sure the Armenians, Anatolian Greeks, Assyrians, Bengalis, Sikhs, Mayans, East Timorese and Tutsis are the same.

Apparently a five day ceasefire is closed to being agreed according to the Washington Post.

I see Joe has also warned Israel about settler violence in the West Bank due to pressure from within his own administration. He did mention denying them visas

Perhaps if he threatened to cut off aid as well it might get Bibi's attention. That will never happen though.