BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

orangerhyme · 19-11-2023 1:51pm

I'm all for pedestrianisation and improving public transport.

I wonder if the Metrolink will take some buses off the road.

Part of me thinks they should just remove the Luas between OCS and Charlemont, once the Metro starts, since it covers the same route.

BlueSkyDreams · 19-11-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387643#Comment_121387643

Yes, those that have no choice to use the bus will still use it. Unless they plan to buy a car or car share to work.

But if the aim is to migrate people from cars to the bus, this part of the plan looks very ineffecitve.

Sandyford link is certainly a plus.

Does anyone know why the S8 is so infrequent?

30 mins over weekends and for fair parts of the week seems poor for a key orbital.

My marker is always the LUAS.

You dont check the timetable for the LUAS because the worst it gets is every 15 mins and it averages probably around 7 or 8 mins.

30 min frequency all day on a major orbital doesnt really enable the "bus transfers" from 1 bus to another, which is the MO of the BusConnects network.

thomasj · 19-11-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387721#Comment_121387721

Sure the 76a has been doing it and will continue to do it until Friday

thomasj · 19-11-2023 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387701#Comment_121387701

Yeah it stops at the stop across the road from the eBay offices . It's a pity really but I suppose nta could argue that you have a frequent connection with the N4 that would bring you up to the centre

dfx- · 19-11-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387729#Comment_121387729

That city centre map still remains the worst diagram of all transport diagrams I have seen. Impossible to follow a route. Thick lines on thin, boxes everywhere and harsh red and black lines.

Put in front of a tourist and ask how to get somewhere...

p_haugh · 19-11-2023 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387794#Comment_121387794

And fewer crossing movements too, which will reduce the delays associated with College Green.

p_haugh · 19-11-2023 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387878#Comment_121387878

Agreed, I had to spend a few minutes figuring out which Orbitals were part of the re-routing, before realising the report literally captioned that image with the routes affected 🤦‍♂️😂

p_haugh · 19-11-2023 2:12pm

In other news, it seems the Dublin Bus routes starting next week (S2, L25, 74) have finally been loaded into the system! They're viewable on bustimes if you want the full timetables

https://bustimes.org/services/s2-sean-moore-road-heuston-station

https://bustimes.org/services/l25-dun-laoghaire-dundrum-town-centre

https://bustimes.org/services/74-dundrum-luas-eden-quay

Seems the 74 is using the 44B stop (stop 6041) as it's terminus, with the 44, 44B and L25 using the new stop (stop 7981) added along the Bypass.

For the S2, it's using the old 90 stop at Heuston for Poolbeg bound departures.

Daith · 19-11-2023 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387878#Comment_121387878

I really want an interactive BusConnects maps that lets me toggle routes on and off. I downloaded the full PDF a while back and it reminded me of the days of dial up Internet as it slowly started to become clearer.

orangerhyme · 19-11-2023 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387908#Comment_121387908

Yeah it's mad how long it takes to sharpen.

p_haugh · 19-11-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387908#Comment_121387908

I frequently use http://sandbox.kevin.ie/busconnects_compare/ instead of the PDF, as it loads so much faster. Also lets you compare the changes. It doesnt include the likes of Bray/Swords, but handy for a quick glance. An interactive map would be even better.

I did give making a map with toggleable routes a go (based on the route pngs they used for the phase launch maps), but it took a lot more effort than it was worth 😅

ITV2 · 19-11-2023 3:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387901#Comment_121387901

The S2 using the old 90 stop surprised at that as there is currently no room with Dublin Express and delivery vans/trucks/taxis in that area.

mikeybhoy · 19-11-2023 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387859#Comment_121387859

Well I guess it's all down to the demand and the resources available. The 15 minute peak hour and the 20 minute off peak (M-F) frequency is still a significant increase compared to the frequency of the 75 and 175 as is the weekend frequency an improvement over the 175s hourly weekend frequency.

It's not going to be viable to have every route the same frequency as the Luas.

bk · 19-11-2023 6:46pm

Yes, those that have no choice to use the bus will still use it. Unless they plan to buy a car or car share to work.

The thing to keep in mind with changes like this, while it might lead to a worse service for some people and thus drive them to use a car, it might mean a better service for others and lead them to leaving their car at home and take the bus instead. So the number of cars might stay even or even possibly decrease overall.

It isn’t like Network Direct that lead to there being less buses on the road, BusConnects is putting far more buses on the road.

And looking at the big picture, recent stats have shown more people use buses in Dublin than ever now, up a massive 10% from the same period in 2019. So overall BusConnects has been a success, though always room for improvement.

Of course that isn’t to say they aren’t making a mistake here, to be honest I don’t know the area well enough, certainly an orbital route only every 30 minutes doesn’t sound good enough, but I’m just pointing out the bigger picture. That when some folks might lose out, overall it can still be a net benefit.

BTW I do wonder if the low frequency of the S8 simply reflects the issues with driver shortages. I wonder if the thinking is to just get the new orbital routes up and running and then add extra frequency later as they get more drivers.

orangerhyme · 19-11-2023 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388747#Comment_121388747

If they could get contactless payment working, it would be great.

Maybe the data suggests the frequency is adequate.

I bet the housing crisis is impeding their ability to recruit drivers.

Tarabuses · 19-11-2023 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387250#Comment_121387250

Probably because it will use a different route.

mikeybhoy · 19-11-2023 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388747#Comment_121388747

No the frequency proposed in the frequency tables corresponds to the timetable. But maybe the frequency could be increased in the future.

mikeybhoy · 19-11-2023 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387935#Comment_121387935

I don't think a map of a proposed network that hasn't been implemented yet is of much use to a tourist

cgcsb · 19-11-2023 8:39pm

Ideally the spines should be different coloirs from each other

LXFlyer · 19-11-2023 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388747#Comment_121388747

Nothing to do with the shortages - the frequency is exactly what was in the plan.

BlueSkyDreams · 19-11-2023 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387908#Comment_121387908

This.

The whole map is highly confusing to anyone other than a bus enthusiast.

loco_scolo · 19-11-2023 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387794#Comment_121387794

They really need to introduce a taxi charge for using College Green. The amount of taxis going through there is slowing everything down. It took 22minutes on Friday (on the 13 bus) to go from top of OCS to the bus stop in front of Trinity.

That's fine if someone wants to get a taxi right through the beating heart of the city, but there should be a tenor charge for it. A group of 4 getting a taxi is only marginally more expensive than 4people paying for the bus. This is v.bad.

Qrt · 19-11-2023 11:09pm

Is the whole contactless payment thing that much of a big deal? Tourists aside, everyone I know has a leap card, even if they never really use it. If given the option I wouldn't be using my bank card on PT but maybe that's just me.

stephenjmcd · 19-11-2023 11:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389731#Comment_121389731

Gladly tap on and off with my phone.

Any major cities you visit its possible. Just back from Amsterdam and it was just so easy to use public transport and not have to check if the leap card is topped up etc.

If it came to Dublin I'd switch in the morning.

Qrt · 19-11-2023 11:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389865#Comment_121389865

Interesting, I'm just very anti-phone, turned on auto top-up years ago so that thought never enters my mind.

Qrt · 19-11-2023 11:58pm

Also, probably been said before, but the S8 is going to be absolutely hammered by traffic at peak times, particularly around Citywest and the Jobstown lane merge after Cheeverstown Road. Add in Old Bawn Road too and there might be some very long journey times.

AngryLips · 19-11-2023 11:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389731#Comment_121389731

I honestly wonder the same thing. It's just another card to carry, not exactly the end of the world. The bigger problem is latency of the card readers.

BlueSkyDreams · 20-11-2023 1:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121388715#Comment_121388715

Agreed.

But 30 mins for an orbital is bad.

Especially one that runs through such a largely populated area. Perhaps the most populated orbital in the city.

bk · 20-11-2023 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389211#Comment_121389211

The map is part of a planning document, it isn't for way finding or fort tourists or anything like that.

This map shows every bus route in the city, even quiet local ones, which you would never find on any sort of wayfinding/tourist maps.

A tourist oriented map would include just the core corridors, orbital corridors, Luas and DART lines. Also such maps aren't really geographically realistic, they are more to give you idea of directions.

I find the map in the BusConnects perfectly readable to figure out what will happen with various routes, I don't see any other way you could create a map like this with the required level of detail it includes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389206#Comment_121389206

Well The N4 is now every 12 minutes rather then 10 minutes as originally stated in the BusConenects frequency table.

I suppose what I'm saying is we shouldn't think of the BusConnects as the the final state for the Dublin Bus network, rather I see it as laying a strong foundation which will see ongoing enhancements in future.

I'm hoping the the orbital routes like the S8 and N2 (which has the same 30 minutes nonsense) will be such a success, that once drivers are available they will add service/frequency to them. Get them down to every 15 minutes at least.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121389882#Comment_121389882

I'm not sure what "Anti phone" means!?

I have auto-topup enabled on my Leap card, but I'll happily dump my Leap card once contact less becomes available.

A couple of reasons:

I already use Apple Pay to pay for everything else, why shouldn't I be able to use it on the bus?
Why do I need yet another card to carry around? Frankly I already carry around too many stupid cards that could all be done with phone. Card to get into my apartment building, card/id to get into office, card to get into gym, loyalty card for Tesco/Lidl etc. Passport Card, drivers license, etc. etc. Personally I can't wait for a world where I just need my phone and don't need to also carry a bulging wallet. I've already mostly slimmed down to just 5 cards, nice to get rid of Leap too.
I don't like how much money auto-topup takes from my bank account up front.
Oh and the Leap top-up app is stupidly designed, I have to use it to top-up my daughters leap card. Yes I could enable auto-topup on that too, but €40 on a childs leap card, in addition to my own is just too much money.
It gives me multiple alternative payment methods (iPhone, Apple Watch and two conactless cards I carry) if the leap card was to break, lose it, run out of credit, etc. At the moment I'd be stuck if my Leap card didn't work as I don't carry change any more. While with contactless I'd have half a dozen alternative payment methods.

Another big one, is that my better half is constantly losing her leap card and then borrowing mine until she gets a new one. Very annoying. She would NEVER forget or lose her phone.

Of course I understand that not everyone wants to use their phone or bank card, which is why you can continue to use your Leap card just as you do today.

The more options the better, you aren't losing out on anything while giving those of us would dislike Leap cards our preferred option.

BlueSkyDreams · 20-11-2023 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391713#Comment_121391713

Seems strange that the S8 has the lowest frequency. Considering how long the route is and its hifhly populated.

Possiy the most populated orbital in the network.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Comments