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Pneumonia vaccination

  • 19-11-2023 1:32am
    #1
    Administrators Posts: 390 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭


    This discussion was created from comments split from: Dosing.

    I've started this new thread as it covers a different subject to the original.
    Greysides.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭limo_100


    Hi I was doing some pneumonia vaccine for a neighbour today and he was using rispoval 2 4ml per dose ( brsv and pi3 ) it was there second done so are fully covered now for it hopefully

    But my query is should I be using this also as I only vaccine my stock for IBR live vaccine. (MSD product )



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    First comment would be that it will be about two weeks before your neighbours cattle are fully protected.

    As regards your own query...

    There are three viruses that could initiate "pneumonia". Any of them, alone or in combination, could do it. So how do you know which to vaccinate for?

    You can either test to see what's present, and assume the same ones will be causing problems year on year. Which may not apply if you are buying in cattle.

    Or, you can go with the generalisation that BRSV and PI3 cause problems in younger (<1 yo) and IBR in older cattle. This is risky and probably more risky in dairy herds.

    Or, you can try a vaccine and see how it works out.

    The safe option would be to use both vaccines and cover the three viruses.

    There isn't an easy answer to your question. If what you are doing is working, stick with it.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    The Rispoval-2 doesn't cover Mannheimia Haemolytica A1, strain M4/1

    How significant is this for weanlings prior to weaning & winter housing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    Skip to 15.56 & at 39.19 for MSD Vet Cara Sheridan.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭limo_100


    Thanks I find it all bait confusing. What I do is give the IBR vaccine every at housing. If I was too vaccinate for BRVS or Pi3 would I be better to do this as the calves are born in the spring and IBR in the back end?


    FYI I don't have any major issues with Pneumonia but I have noticed that I don't have any snotty noses in the winter since doing the IBR live vacinne and no coughing along as I control the worms.


    Also I do IBR to the full herd at housing but would I be right in thinking that big cattle as in cows do not need the pneumonia vaccine?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    I'd suggest you vaccinate ahead of the period when you see problems so protection is at its strongest when needed.

    What you are doing seems to be working so keep at it.

    Vaccinating the cows is helping protect the calves too. Less carriers excreting, lower environment virus levels and colostral immunity.

    It would be very unusual to vaccinate cows for BRSV / PI3.


    Mannheimia is a secondary agent. Nice to have it included, not vital. (According to modern doctrine. )

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭limo_100


    That's very good she speaks very well.


    Cheers I will get it sorted and more organised for next year.

    If I was to vaccinate RSP its a 2 shot program, so If I keep them cattle for next winter would one shot cover them as a booster as they got there previous 2 shots the previous year? Also is there a live vaccine for this RSP ?

    How long does this RSP give the the cattle immunity for like leapt covers 12months IBR covers 6 months and RSP covers a year is it?





  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    The Bovipast RSP leaflet doesn't state how long it works for. Experience suggests it works for "long enough" when you use it as stated.

    https://www.hpra.ie/img/uploaded/swedocuments/VPA10996_152_001-CRN00CXW0-31_01_2023-SPC_03022023104529.pdf

    The leaflet suggests giving further booster doses two weeks prior to the need.

    The nearest live vaccine is Rispoval Intranasal RS+PI3. No Mannheimia element.


    It's worth looking through datasheets.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭limo_100


    I had a read of it there that answers my questions. That live nasal vaccine is it and bovipart RSP conected as in If the nasal was used at first followed by the bovipast at 12weeks would work together. Or would you still need 2 shots of bovipast RSP even if the nasal vaccine was used.

    I will be doing my cattle this week with IBR and RSP but would it be ok to give the heifers there first shot of lepto vac at the same time or is two different vax's enough for one day?


    Thanks for this I find the vaccines for pneumonia very confusing but less so today thanks



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    No company will stand over mixing their products with others. It's not in their interest to trial them to find out such answers. Therefore no vet will advise using them outside the specified parameters.

    Getting away from the legities, the type of virus used in each vaccine is probably different and you would be eliciting different initial reactions to each without either then being boosted to effective levels.

    While Clostridial vaccines contain a number of different antigens, I wouldn't suggest trying to do three shots on the one day. I'd suggest you spread them out.

    A1, B1, A2, B2.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭nhg


    Getting ready to start the usual calf vaccine programme (once youngest in batch is over 2 weeks of age)

    Tribovax 10 x 2ml

    Bovipast RSP x 5ml

    Bovillis IBR Live x2ml

    Vecoxan 25ml/ 30ml (weight dependent)

    Then 4 weeks later follow with booster

    Tribovax 10 x 2ml

    Bovipast RSP x 5ml

    Following year booster

    Tribovax 10 x 2ml

    Bovipast RSV x 5ml


    Dosing with Vecoxan as a preventative measure - when best to dose with this…

    Had been using Vecoxan but used Dycoxan last 2 to 3 years (vets told us Vecoxan was gone off market but it’s not) & had coccidiosis issues so going back to Vecoxan - on vet’s instructions ended up dosing for coccidiosis 4 times last year - that’s not good for man nor beast…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭limo_100


    I did all my calves this year with the msd intranasal pneumonia vaccine up the nose at birth which covers them for 12weeks, I wasn't going to do the bovipast or the ibr until the end of next summer before weaning. Am I missing a trick here by not doing the calves with it? I did inject some of the calves with IBR as I had some left over and they where around so through a shot into some of them.


    Also the vecoxan is it expensive? I never had coccidiosis is this something I should be doing ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭nhg


    We run a dairy calf to finished beef system where we buy in about 80 bill calves directly from a small few dairy farmers (BIL is ai man so he knows the breeding in these herds) each year. To ensure every calf is fully vaccinated we run our own vaccination program.


    Yeah Vecoxan is €340 for 2.5L & Dycoxan is €242.25 for 2.5L but we weren’t happy with the Dycoxan & ended up dosing 4 times last year which was very expensive so going back to the Vecoxan in the hope of better results.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,335 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    We used Vecoxan years ago with mixed results and was advised by our Vet at the time to use Bovicox. We have been using it since on the bought in dairy X beef calves and haven't had one case of coccidiosis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭nhg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,335 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    A week or so before weaning and turnout (weather dependent). We also vaccinate all bought in calves with Rispoval RS+Pi3 intranasal upon arrival or within a day. New calves go into the top yard for a week before we transfer them to the main rearing sheds. In September/October we give them Bovipast (2 shots a month apart), Bovillis IBR and Multimin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭limo_100


    Ok so no need to give bovipast until sept that's what i was thinking its expensive enough. The rispoval is that up the nose? Also would you not give the calves a shot of multi-min when the arrive as I was advised to give a shot to calves when born here 1-2cc so I was planning on doing the same when buying calves in april.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,335 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Jaysus I'm not a Vet and I only post the experiences on our farm.

    IMO you need to have a good working relationship with your Vet. I've previously posted on F&F that the most important people with the workings of our farm are OH/me, our Vet/practitioners and then our Accountant in that order.

    Rispoval RS+Pi3 is intranasal - up the nose.

    We feed our bought in dairy X beef calves on a quality cmr that provides them with all their nutritional requirements along with access to straw, hay and ad-lib crunch.

    Re: Multimin - why would young calves need a boost of Multimin?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭limo_100


    What milk replacer to do find has the best nutritional value?

    I don't know the vet just said it so I done it probably should have asked. But I just assume its gives there immune system a boost helps overcome deficiency they may have. In a low selenium area here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    We give covexin at between 14 and 21 days, using a formula in Excel worksheet



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