Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Exactly, it's your view, and you are entitled to it, just as I am to mine. And I'm not basing that on what the IDF, Hamas, the US etc are saying, first casualty of any war is the truth, so I take everything with a grain of salt. The thrust of all your posts seems to be directed against Israel. Big bad Israel, everything is their fault etc, etc, For me, both sides are wrong. So, I neither condemn nor condone either side. Time enough for that when / if more information etc becomes available.

I'm more concerned about the part that the tunnels are playing, the technical issues, especially logistics. When I see a post by the IDF, showing (in this case) a large 4 x 4 vehicle, supposedly booby trapped, and lots of weapons, hand grenades, ammo magazines spread out on the floor, I know this scene very well because it's not the first time I've seen it, and in real life too. People are moving freely around it because the vehicle has been thoroughly checked and any boobytrap has been disabled and removed. And when I looked at the pic for the first time, those were my thoughts exactly. So, I give my opinion on it. And that opinion is not guesswork or supposition. But according to you its just guesswork? As for the bombing and IDF covering up, Sure they are, I'm not disputing that with you. But I've worked with teams who specialize in bomb disposal, handling booby traps and especially VBIEDS. Same thing with how much progress the IDF is making in the tunnels how far they have gone ect, I've never claimed to know that. Only the IDF and Hamas know that, but I'm 100% sure that the IDF are in the tunnels, and it's going to be a long and dangerous job clearing them, and some will not be cleared, but will have to be disabled some other way. So, I'm not in any rush to say that the IDF are lying bastards etc, just because no tunnels have been found,,,,the operational word is YET.

Hmmm I’m not convinced, sorry.

Just an observation, there has been weapons found by the IDF that looked a little rusty, or let's just say not in the best condition. The 4x4 had a nice little cache, AK's, grenades etc... so why did Hamas leave it all behind? Maybe they were in a rush, fair enough, but they had time to booby trap the jeep? Maybe they were surrounded and couldn't walk out with the weapons but had time to booby trap the jeep, totally possible. But we've been told there's a hidden tunnel in every second building in Gaza, they could have easily taken them all with them.

Yes, that 4x4 was the business all right!! All loaded up and ready for action. I wonder if it was originally prepared for action on the 7th? But in any case, it's not uncommon to find such vehicles all ready just like this one, then abandoned. (and not just vehicles either. I'm waiting to see what will be found in the tunnels as the IDF venture further into them, especially the missing command centre) I reckon that they were cornered by units of the IDF, and just got out while they could but were unable to take it because a 4x4 driving around the streets in Gaza at his time would be a magnet for IDF surveillance. As for the booby trap, maybe it was or maybe it was not, but regardless it would have to be checked out, like the whole area around it for booby traps. No one just walks into an area like that, it always has to be checked out first, and that really slows down thing's

With all due respect, if I have to explain why Israel haven’t used a nuke on Gaza then I can’t help you.

The people who left Gaza last week were some Irish passport holders who were in Gaza before it was cut off. They were not hostages, held by Hamas.

Why do you want to post videos?

A post thanked multiple times that contains complete inaccuracies.

Israel was not given “the worst land in the region”

Israel is not even one of the wealthiest countries in the region, never mind the world.

Don’t let prejudice and stereotypes blind you to reality.

I agree. It is disgusting that Hamas are using them as a human shield and, to a lesser extent, disgusting that Israel are treating them as collateral damage. The overwhelming responsibility for the civilian deaths in Gaza lies with Hamas. They are the authors and instigators of this round of death. They have sunk to a new level of barbarity.

Did you miss the bit where we have a poster demanding such evidence from them, else they deny such atrocities occurred? Strange you seem oblivious to the Hamas defenders on the thread who have engaged in such tactics over the course of it.

Do you really believe that Hamas videoed themselves burning civilians to death. Have you seen or heard about these videos or read about them online or in newspapers? Where?

So no “Hamas terrorists burning civilians on camera with glee”.

Do pathologists tell us if the fire was started by Israeli forces or Hamas forces?

A poster claimed to have seen videos of Hamas burning civilians to death “with glee”. No videos exist of Hamas burning people to death.

Why deny that?

There's videos of atrocities which were shown to the media which encompass burning civilians to death eg

The footage that the Israeli military showed foreign correspondents Monday included a photo of a burnt baby. It showed gunmen shooting the dead bodies of civilians in cars, militants in the process of beheading a body with a hoe, burnt corpses thrown in a dumpster.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-attack-military-war-a8f63b07641212f0de61861844e5e71e

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/18/israel/palestine-videos-hamas-led-attacks-verified

There's also footage of Hamas celebrating those atrocities.

There was horrific footage live streamed, viewed by posters on the thread, and attested to on the thread, of the beheading attack on a civilian. Footage which you know cannot be shared directly here.

You know all this, and yet "Why deny that?" Yet you did.

Why deny that indeed?

And yet, beside the abundant posts questioning posters who claim Hamas have committed atrocities, where are the posts challenging claims of alleged Israeli atrocities? So there can be no neutral pretence of "just the facts" can there?

So "why deny that"?

Plainly and obviously, it is to defend Hamas.