Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

And there are others who throw the fog of October 7th over the decades of atrocities carried out by Israel. This didn’t start on October 7th, the most surprising thing is that anyone is surprised it happened.

Mass murdering civilians in revenge isn’t war either, it’s a holocaust.

I condemned Hamas, without reservation, without qualification, without equivocation, multiple times. So at least be honest.

You speak of muddying the waters. The claim was that a poster had seen a video, that no one else has ever claimed existed or to have claimed to have seen. That’s evidence enough for you. Fine.

The principle of what can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence only applies to posters you disagree with. Fine.

You won't find a single post of mine excusing Hamas' behaviour. You know this, stop pretending I have done so. I have made posts saying that it is reasonable for Israel to pursue them in various ways including using Mossad to 'neutralise' its leaders. How much more acknowedlgement do you want from me beyond what I've said about Hamas's actions being horrific, and unacceptable?

There absolutely is clear evidence of Israel committing war crimes. But you can relax, they will not be held accountable. And Israel's PM shown a map at the UN of the 'new middle east region' with Palestine completely removed, he has since spoken of bibilical guidance to justify the killing of all Palestinians. These are facts.

I presume when you talk about the unconditional release of hostages, you are including the thousands of Palestinians held without charge in Israeli prisons?

I see Hamas as a terrorist organization, I have been clear about this since I first posted. You will have to construct a different strawman if you think you can challenge any support for them coming from my direction.

If oct 7 happened here I would wish the purps to suffer greatly

Do Palestinians have the right to self defense under international law ?

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[p.225] Article 33 is derived from Article 50 of the Hague Regulations: "No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they can not be regarded as jointly and severally responsible".

Or maybe you can tell us how telling the entire population of an area to move, or turning off power/water/internet to them, or targeting water supply lines, bakeries etc doesn't constitute this.

Who is saying otherwise?

That would at least be something positive to come out of all the death and suffering.

Should be easy to find such posts then. I only recall ones couched in reservation and whataboutery or vagueness, without accepting their atrocities as a fact.

Similarly, should be easy to find the posts where you challenged with "dismissed without evidence" for an accusation against Israel. Because when you only bring it out for claims against Hamas, you can see why is creates the impression you are here as a Hamas defender and tacit supporter.

"At least be honest"? Those are your words not mine, so maybe take your own advice.

There is sufficient evidence to conclude that Hamas burned civilians, from the footage and other evidence available. Similarly, there is sufficient evidence to conclude they celebrated such acts.

Do you deny it?

You were asked that as a simple question in previous post and no answer was given.

So if you don't deny it - do you accept Hamas carried out such atrocities and do you condemn Hamas for it, without reservation, without ifs?

And if you accept it happened, why would you take such issue with the possibility that somewhere online such footage was actually seen?

And why does that seem to matter more to you than the fact of what Hamas actually did?

Given that we know Hamas carried out atrocities against civilians, and we know from body cam footage they recorded atrocities and shared them online before being taken down, and what has been shared in mainstream media is redacted.

Malaysian PM saying it to his face.

You might think that, but you are completely and totally wrong. There is no relationship between them, Islamic State considered Hamas an enemy as Hamas' goal is a free and self governed Palestinian nation state (yes, a Muslim one, in much the same way as Israel is a Jewish one) while ISIS were opposed to nation states and instead wanted a caliphate.

And if you're talking in terms of pure brutality, the IDF is surely the organisation most similar to ISIS in terms of the atrocities they've actually committed. They've even copied another element of the IS playbook in tearing down monuments in the West Bank to try and destroy their culture.

It says a lot that the method of justifying warcrimes against Palestinian civilians has moved on from collective punishment of Palestinians for the actions of a few Hamas terrorists, as any concept of proportionality has long gone out the window there, so you're now trying to justify the ongoing mass murder of innocent Palestinian children as some kind of retribution for any crime committed by any muslim anywhere in the world even if those people were directly opposed to the cause of Palestinian freedom.

No, Hamas do not want a free and self governing nation for Palestinian Arabs. They want an Islamic State governed by Sharia law. That required massive restrictions on freedom and completely precludes self governance. Both ISIS and Hamas are Sunni, both want to ethnically cleans the regions they control of all non Sunni Muslims. Both see the deaths of their own civilians are a worthwhile endeavour as the dead are martyrs and any amount of blood spilled is justified in pursuit of their mandate from heaven.

Suggesting that the IDF are most similar to ISIS and the implicit suggestion that their actions are worse than those of Hamas is disgusting and is beneath contempt.

Ignoring that Hamas is the elected government of Gaza and that their actions enjoy broad support amongst the Gazan population is deserving of the same contempt.

I personally don't believe the babies were beheaded but I've seen enough of the reality for me to form an opinion that Israel should continue their campaign until hamas are dead and cannot regroup

Ok, so you are willing to believe someone who says they have seen something that nobody else has seen. That’s fine but then don’t dismiss others as conspiracy theorists if that is your standard for evidence of truth.

You say I don’t hold those condemning the killing of Palestinian civilians to the same standard. There seems to be an ample number of people on this thread dismissing dead Palestinian children as dolls, denying the shooting of unarmed civilians by Israeli soldiers etc.

Also only one side in the conflict is targeting those reporting on atrocities, killing them and their families.

Only one side is seeking to reduce the punishment for those who have burnt children to death.