Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

If you’re right about POM vs. NZ, we better find a completely new backrow quickly. He had as much impact on the game as I had.

This sounds like the definition of the sunk cost fallacy, or at least potentially.

Ryan is a good player but was literally dropped at the business end of the RWC and his lineout calling has repeatedly been shown up as below the standard required at the elite level. Not to mention being overlooked by the Lions due to his lack of physicality gives an impression of a player who still has room to grow to reach a world class level.

Beirne and Henderson are also fine players at any given time may be the chosen starters over him as they were recently. There's also a number of promising second rows coming through like McCarthy, Edogbo or Ahern who may at some point in the cycle be considered starters.

Given all the doubts nailing colours to the mast for Ryan at this stage would be a poor decision that could lead to an uncomfortable Sam Cane type situation.

POM is 34 and in an attritional position so I'd be very surprised if he wasn't in his last season or two. Given his experience and current status in the team he would make the most sense for captaincy for a season or two after which the natural successor might be a bit clearer.

I think the myth of Ryan's poor lineout calling was busted when he was unavailable for the New Zealand game, yet we still struggled with Henderson and Beirne.

It was as much a systems failing as anything else which our coaches need to accept a substantial portion of the blame.

We also missed his work at the breakdown. There's no forward in Ireland better at blitzing a ruck.

That was it, cheers. I presumed business end meant the NZ game though, but mileage may vary I suppose. On the bench anyway, so not dropped. Then not available due to injury from the hand injury in the Scotland game. So not dropped.

Bad coaching by head kicker O'Connell.

Plumtree doesn't look too hot as a head coach for the Sharks at the moment, but he was a brilliant lineout (and maul) coach for Ireland.

The fact is that in the last game that Ryan was available for he was on the bench. Therefore no one can say with any certainty that he is nailed on in the team. The same players he was competing with at the WC will still be about for at least half the next WC cycle, if not the whole thing, and in McCarthy and possibly Ahern and whoever else emerges there will be even more players putting him under pressure.

If we want to pick someone who is as close as guaranteed a spot in the team then pick Keenan as captain. That doesn't seem viable for a number of reasons so personally I'd choose Ringrose. Otherwise pick O'Mahony for a year or so while Ryan nails down his spot or someone like Sheehan is ready to take the job.

Whilst I personally have no issue with Beirne or Henderson being in any Ireland team at the moment, I feel Ryan kinda is the most choosable of those three. He's been ahead of Henderson pretty consistently - or at least it seems that way, I haven't looked up the stats - and I realise that Henderson has has his injury problems which makes a comparison problematic - and Beirne is a different animal to Hendo/Ryan so he's complementary rather than directly competing with. For Leinster, Ryan is one of the first names on the sheet if he's fit.

I took exception to one of the posts above because he wasn't dropped and frankly a lot of the rest of the post was bizarre.

Anyone calling Ryan's game to be lacking in physicality hasn't been watching him play since the Lions tour (which didn't feature lots of players people thought deserved it but did feature ... Adam ... Beard, a real talent in the second row and AWJ who whilst a past great was absolutely not in the top two on second row play alone, he got in for 'leadership appreciated by Gatland'). Him going off injured was one of the main reasons Leinster didn't win last year's HC final. He was smashing people in the tackle and the ruck. There's absolutely truth to Ryan going through a period where his form wasn't good at all, and it centred around when the Lions decisions were made. He started off in fantastic form for both Ireland and Leinster, then had a year and a half or so where he just wasn't up to that standard and has come back very strong since then. He's worked on the physical aspect and is now one of the bigger hitters in the Irish squad. The lineout calling, particularly at the WC, isn't limited to Ryan, the lineout was a mess and there were several others on the field - who aren't called out for their lineout calling - when all the problems occurred. Then when he wasn't even in the 23, the lineout also totally f*cked it. He wasn't the problem.

Given the person - O'Mahony - he's being talked about in captaincy terms has also had (longer than a year and a half) periods where his form hasn't been great, it's a bit odd to be calling him out for it. Especially where they were two years ago. In terms of being nailed on for a starter position, he's more nailed on than the other contender in the forwards for the captaincy.

For the record, I have no problem with POM as captain for the next year. He deserves it if it gets it and the eminence he has amongst the squad and the leadership he provides (much like the AWJ reference above) outstrips anything anyone looking to take his spot gives us. I'm not saying it's my choice,I still think it'll be Ryan or Ringrose, but if it's not and it's O'Mahony I'm totally behind that decision. He's very worthy.

Yeah, see above. Not dropped.

I can practically see the back of my own head.

For one match, which wasn't the last (business end) match we played. It was a disingenous assertion (at best) as well as being an inaccurate usage of the word dropped.

But I'll (probably) leave it there.

As for future Captains, the one that stands out to me is Caelan Doris.

Ringer for the captaincy.

Yeah he didn’t seem bad (injury wise) initially when he came on against Scotland but took a bang and then his right (?) arm was basically useless for the remainder. Was trying to tackle with one arm etc.

But we do know he picked up the injury in the SA game initially and that he wasn’t training fully (I think the phrase was modified training) leading into the Scotland game. Between that and the extent of the injury when he took the bang against Scotland shows us he wasn’t fully right and probably shouldn’t have been risked in that game. But hindsight etc etc.

I thought James Ryan injured one hand against South Africa, and the other hand to a worse extent against Scotland. I could have had that wrong though. I vaguely remember a comment about how unlucky he was that he was minding one injury and then got the other injury, and even speculating that if he didn’t have the first injury maybe the second injury wouldn’t have occurred. Again, I might have taken it up wrong.