Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

No ok. Not going to fall for your attempted distraction. You are the one inserting yourself into the debate questioning claims about atrocities.

You were asked a simple question:

"I accept that Hamas committed atrocities?"

Do you miss the step where you were asked to condemn them also? Why are you incapable of giving a straight answer to this question?

And your response is whataboutery and deflection and paragraphs of text... anything but come out and condemn without reservation Hamas for the atrocities you accept they committed.

And yet you have never questioned similar claims about Israel, proof positive it is not done with regard to establishing some bar for evidence - so no you do not hold them to the same standard. Exactly what we would expect from a Hamas defender and supporter. And that's exactly what we get.

Under international law, there was a ceasefire on October 6th, then on October 7th, Hamas were the aggressor, giving Israel the right to self-defence under international law. You cannot have a right to self-defence under international law unless you are attacked by an aggressor who is not acting under their right to self-defence. So, unless and until Israel overstep the mark e.g. keep attacking Hamas after the hostages taken on 7/10 have been released, then the answer to your question is no.

This has been explained to you multiple times.

You haven't condemned Hamas for the specific atrocity you were asked to, the atrocity you were happy to post paragraphs about discussing earlier. Strange that.

You stated earlier that you accept Hamas burned civilians, you accept that Hamas inflicted atrocities on civilians - this is all in the content of your posts from today. I haven't picked some random atrocity out of the blue.

And yet instead of just accepting and then condemning Hamas for those atrocities against Israeli civilians, instead we get post after post dodging the question, whataboutery or vague indirect responses, and now attacking the poster querying why you can't give a straight answer. Anything but just bloody condemn Hamas for atrocities against civilians. So your continued refusals to condemn Hamas for atrocities against civilians is revealing.

Case in point for those who somehow think there are no Hamas supporters on the thread, when someone is unable to bring themselves to condemn Hamas for atrocities they accept they committed, that is a Hamas supporter and defender.

Asia stepping up now

One of the requirements to exercise the right to self-determination is that you extend that right to others. Given that the Palestinians have elected and maintained in place a regime that seeks the genocidal elimination of the Jews, the answer is that the Palestinians currently don't have the right to self-determination.

Telling the entire population of an area to move? Or do you mean giving a warning to civilians, before you take action, thereby giving them time to move away from the area? Not a war crime, the opposite in fact.

Turning off power, water, internet? Why do you feel Israel should have to supply these to another country? Surely Hamas and all the money they have received the past 20 years, have invested in such infrastructure in their own country? No?

And without investigation, we don't know if war crimes have been committed, and I know about war crimes, I wouldn't begin to decide whether war crimes have been committed, without knowing what actual evidence there is. The real evidence collated by investigators, not some Joe on the internet!

The people of East Timor will be happy to hear that Indonesia are now concerned about ethnic cleansing and genocide. Okay, so that was the old Indonesian government, the new one didn't do that.

We'll have to ignore the ongoing Genocide they are committing in West Papua which, since 2018 has internally displaced up to 100,000 people. Since 1969 they have killed up to 500,000 people. The UN has reported that the Indonesian government restricts aid to displaced people.

Sound familiar? Sound like these guys should be wagging their finger at Israel? But there are no Jews in Indonesia so there's no need to international protests or racist Marxist TD's to have a hate filled bigoted rant about them.

I see the brutality of this conflict but I see Hamas as having started this round. I see them as sustaining this round. I see them using their own people as human shields. I see all of those things and I therefore place most of the blame for the death and suffering on them.

That doesn't excuse the callous disregard for innocent life shown by Israel. They have their religious extremists too but they aren't running things in Israel like Hamas are running things in Gaza. They don't enjoy broad support in Israel the way Hamas does in Gaza. Even during the height of the Troubles the child killers in the IRA never got support from anywhere close to a majority of Nationalists in Northern Ireland and while they were (and still are) murdering scum they weren't anywhere near as bad as Hamas.

I haven't seen anyone blaming ISIS for this conflict. I have seen people compare Hamas and ISIS because they are very similar in their moral and ethical behaviour and in their desire to see Sharia imposed on the people they rule.

I fear and loathing for bigoted extremism is not Islamophobia. I fear and loath equally all extremist religions and belief systems that seek to kill all non believers and apostates.

You can't can you ? Just baseless claims which have been shot down in flames multiple times this last few weeks which you never respond to.

As Israel has been occupying Gaza since 07, they are required by law to supply basic necessities or not hinder aid into Gaza.

Gaza has a power station but only Israel are allowed to supply fuel to it. So if they don't provide the fuel, they have to supply power.

Being an occupier has a lot of responsibilities.

People still refute the claim that Gaza was under occupation prior to 7/10. They probably still don't believe it's been occupied now. Easy to ignore the collective punishment war crime when you don't see Gaza as being occupied. Head in the sand stuff.

Because it is the whole basis of everything. " Israel has the right to defend itself " yes it does like any other state, but you only have that right if you are attacked on your own territory not someone else's. Without that narrative the whole legal case falls apart and becomes illegal.

With the risk of getting into a circular argument, it's in the post that bothered you in the first place.