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Heavyweight Boxing

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    #12872
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,381 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394414#Comment_121394414

    I know how high a cup belt goes and it's below the top of your underwear. I wore them many times.

    Although I've heard they have underwear as part of them these days so they'd be the height of your underwear.



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    #12873
    newhouse87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394421#Comment_121394421

    Cup belts are not universally worn at same height by fighters so you cant factually say where it was and you know it, you can hazard a guess but thats all.



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    #12874
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,381 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394424#Comment_121394424

    Well there's no way it's anywhere near his belly button and that's a fact.

    And it'd make no sense to have it anywhere but just above the hip. It'd only drop if you had it higher.



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    #12875
    Manuel Warm Giant
    Posts: 13,688 ✭ Manuel Warm Giant


    Good piece in The Daily Mail of all places about Sonny Liston.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-12771825/Sonny-Liston-gravestone-death-boxing-heavyweight.html




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    #12876
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394460#Comment_121394460

    Poor oul Liston, I often feel very sorry for him. Great jab and super power. At 6’1 wouldn’t be a big HW now or anything like it but P4P he’d be trouble in any era. I remember reading a book on Ali, written when Tyson was in his prime and the author remarked that Liston would beat Tyson. I’m not sure he would but that’s one I wouldn’t have minded to see. Ali got him a good time but when you consider that the experts feared for Ali’s life he really did shake up the world!



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    #12877
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Of all the HW champions throughout history, Liston is the most rated/revered for a champion that fought very little (as champion and number title fights). Not sure why he garnered such reverence/awe



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    #12878
    Manuel Warm Giant
    Posts: 13,688 ✭ Manuel Warm Giant


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397208#Comment_121397208

    Tyson said Sonny Liston & Jack Dempsey were the two he looked up to.

    I remember myself and the lads had a 'robust' debate in the pub one evening about who'd win between Liston and Tyson.

    I sided with Liston as he would have a footlong reach advantage over Tyson which is huuuuge, especially using his, as you say, great jab.

    It's a fight I certainly wouldn't be streaming on the laptop haha.



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    #12879
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,381 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Liston was before my time but people I know who were big boxing fans, guys who bought the Ring Magazine and attended lots of professional fights all said Liston was one of the greatest.

    A lot of them had Ali as the greatest and either Liston or Joe Louis as no.2.

    Floyd Patterson was another they all rated highly. Liston knocked him out twice in the first round.



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    #12880
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Prime 80s Tyson with his speed, power, combinations and bob n weave steamrolls Liston early. Liston’s jab will be a non-factor. Tyson gets to his chin very easy, and no way Liston takes it. Tyson had a rock solid chin.



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    #12881
    Manuel Warm Giant
    Posts: 13,688 ✭ Manuel Warm Giant


    I think Liston wins 7 fights out of 10.



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    #12882
    Panthro
    Registered Users Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    Smokin' Joe vs Tyson would be my match up.



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    #12883
    Manuel Warm Giant
    Posts: 13,688 ✭ Manuel Warm Giant


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397453#Comment_121397453

    Would you have a fancy in it?



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    #12884
    Panthro
    Registered Users Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    Frazier. Be some fight though.



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    #12885
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,785 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121397235#Comment_121397235

    Television.

    The first cable TV PPV showing of a fight (Cost $2!) was Patterson vs Johannson in 1960. 25,000 people watched that and then 600,000 people watched Liston vs Patterson. Huge explosion of televised boxing just as Liston, err, hit.

    Also the size of TVs increased during those few years from 10 or 12 inches to 21 inches meaning bars could now show fights.

    It was always shown on TV because it was cheap to do so, but the explosion of TV ownership in the mid to late 50s meant more people saw him destroy Floyd twice.

    Tyson would've destroyed Liston btw. The sport moved on so much post Ali never mind into the 80s.



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    #12886
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121399231#Comment_121399231

    Yes. Spot on. Plus, he was the first real mean/sullen/nasty champion. He was just unlikable for the public. This adds to the awe



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    #12887
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Yea Tyson would likely hammer Liston. By the 80s these guys were celebs and proper pros with much better training, physio and medical treatment. Just like today has advanced even more.

    Liston vs Jack Johnson would be a good watch



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    #12888
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121400708#Comment_121400708

    Today has advanced more from when? For me today is weaker in plenty divisions

    Take WW/JMW/MW/SMW, for example....I'd take the best from the 80s/90s than those today

    JLW, Josh fooking Taylor got undisputed....in the 1980s and 1990s, he'd be a nobody..

    1980s HWs and 1990s HWs far better depth than today. Usyk isn't lasting two rds with prime Tyson or Lewis or Bowe; Holmes beats him silly as well. Holyfield at HW too much for him. Big George too strong...

    AJ gets walloped against plenty. Wilder, barring his power is not near the talent and skills level of many 1980s and 1990s HWs



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    #12889
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401006#Comment_121401006

    I mean it’s advanced in terms of training, physios, medical treatment. That’s across all sport. Even footwear not sure if that’s changed in boxing but look at the super shoes in marathon running.

    I think boxing has lost a lot of stars due to the accessibility of other sports. Many top end boxers esp at HW were failed in some other sport.

    not sure Usyk couldn’t mix it with them all, well never know. It’s like saying Ali would beat them all. He may be the greatest but every chance Tyson or Lewis would rip him apart



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    #12890
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I see Holyfield picking Usyk. Similar reasoning to myself. Too busy and too moving. Fury won’t keep up with him



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    #12891
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402767#Comment_121402767

    Yes. Get you. I think boxing has definitely improved through the decades. But I think it has slowed down on its improvements. 1980s-early 90s was where it reached its pinnacle, and since that time (and the proceeding couple a decades) the talent and skills have not improved. Today and recently aren’t as good as 15-20-30 -40 years ago

    on Usyk. I think the worst match is the very hard-hitting, aggressive, fit and determined Tyson. Usyk won’t see rd 3. A combination of Tyson’s traits against a fighter who cannot at all hurt or discourage him



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    #12892
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 20,055 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403456#Comment_121403456

    so you are picking Usyk?



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    #12893
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403633#Comment_121403633

    Yup. I think he is too fast, quick, busy and moving.



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    #12894
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 20,055 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403752#Comment_121403752

    he will be for 4 or 5 rounds, fury will slow him down ;)



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    #12895
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403826#Comment_121403826

    Well, no better man to do that than Fury, who has a good boxing/fighting brain. I just think Usyk’s brain, fitness and movement won’t allow Fury enough chances/time to really impose his physical self.



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    #12896
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I dont think anyone blows Usyk away in 3 rounds I think he may have the best footwork I’ve ever seen at CW or HW. He has great reflexes and again is among the best ever in terms of stamina. Not one punch power but he wore down Joshua to the point of quitting. I know Joshua is no Tyson but still. Anyhow we wont ever see it so it’s a side note for another debate.

    For Usyk and Fury let’s get talking. I think again so much depends on the referee. If he were to allow Fury to lean, spoil and wrestle then I see him wearing Usyk down and eventually stopping him. If he keeps distance (I’m thinkin similar to Hatton Mayweather) then Usyk has a huge advantage. He still needs to fight a near perfect fight while Fury will be dangerous for him throughout. I think Fury late but I’m rooting for Usyk



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    #12897
    reclose
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭reclose


    I’m hoping Usyk wins but I think Fury has all the tools to make it a really ugly fight and win it that way.



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    #12898
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,633 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I see John Fury on saying Feb 17 too early for Fury....laying the groundwork for another duck?



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    #12899
    OmegaGene
    Registered Users Posts: 9,331 ✭✭✭OmegaGene


    i missed the gorman fight last night but by all accounts he came in fat as a house and too slow, his comeback ended in a points defeat

    The internet isn’t for everyone



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    #12900
    Dick phelan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Absolute bollox that either Usyk or Fury get blown away by anyone. I'd pick both to beat a few great fighters from the past. Mike Tyson beat guys like Bruce Seldon and Trevor Berbick and an old Larry Holmes. He might win but he isn't doing the same to either Usyk or Fury. As for Holyfield at CW him vs Usyk is incredibly hard to call.



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    #12901
    Dick phelan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    As for Usyk vs Fury a lot depends on what Fury's mind is like. Make no mistake he has to be at the level he was when he beat Klitschko or Wilder 2. If he is I think he wins a competitive fight by decision. If he really has slipped than Usyk takes it for me.



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